Being 40

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Was it easy? I don't know. Welcome everybody, good to have you all here. Brian, what did you think 40 would be like? 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Um, 40, it's hard to say. I didn't have a perception when I was 20 what 40 was going to be. I suppose 40 when I was 20 was an older kind of person with a pot belly and a moccasin head with shaved head and ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What's a moccasin head?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  A moccasin head is you've got no hair on top and you've got hair on the side so you can put your foot straight on like a moccasin. That's my perception. It was an older type of person.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  I know this, moccasin thing is a big thing in your mind or it was, yes, the hair was important?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   Yeah, around my little group when we talk about, I know what a moccasin head is so sometimes we don't have to explain it. It's not as good if you have to explain it. Yeah, with 40 it's hard to say. My perception of a 40‑year‑old is different than it was say 5 or 10 years ago that ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  That's because you're 40.

BRIAN TAUBERT:  That's because I'm 40, exactly right.

JENNY BROCKIE:   Fiona, you're divorced with three kids, how were you feeling in the run up to turning 40?

 

 FIONA MANN: Um, I guess, when I think when I was younger I wasn't expecting to be divorced at 40. I thought I'd be in a happy family with children and so I had to take a step back and re‑evalue my life and yeah, so it wasn't what I expected.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Has it been a challenging ‑ is it a challenging time?

 

FIONA MANN:    A little bit, the couple of years leading up to 40, yes, definitely going through a divorce and having three children, um, I was probably ‑ I was working part‑time at the time as well so it was a total shift. I had to start thinking career which I hadn't done. I'd been a stay‑at‑home mother. So it has been a big shift but it's been exciting as well building a career.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Statistically it is a time when relationships break down, if they're going to actually. We'll get on to that a little bit later on. Hedy, you and your friend Jasmin have been mates for a long time. I think we've got a picture of both of you at 16.

 

HEDI DAMARI: Oh, god, great.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And you both had your 40th birthday. So there you are at 16. You both had your 40th birthday party a couple of months ago.

 

JASMIN ELIAS:  That's the first time I've actually seen that picture.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Is it?

 

JASMIN ELIAS:  Yeah.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  How do you feel about that then?

JASMIN ELIAS:  I don't know how many champaigns I've had there.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  You felt differently about turning 40, didn't you? Tell us about that.

 

JASMIN ELIAS:  A little bit, a little bit.  I found the lead up at times quite difficult.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Is that because you're married with a couple of kids and it's that time of your life do you think?

 

JASMIN ELIAS:   Maybe, yeah, yeah. 

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What about you, Hedy, how did you feel about it?

 

HEDY DAMARI: I was completely in denial until I was 40. I've never had a problem with getting older, I've really enjoyed ‑ 30 was awesome. I think you struggled with 30, didn't you?

 

JASMIN ELIAS: Hugely, yeah.

 

HEDY DAMARI: I didn't struggle with 30, I loved it but then I think from 38 onwards you start thinking about 40 and I don't feel any different but the number 40, 40, it's old. It's like don't trust anyone over 40 and now I'm 40.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Don't tell me it's old, I won't buy, I won't buy that it's old.

 

HEDY DAMARI: It freaks me out, you know.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Noel, you're single. You've been working since you were 16, you've got a management job now, tell us what the most important thing to you was about turning 40?

 
NOEL WALKER: Just making it, making it to 40. I was so excited about turning 40, I had this huge party with family and friends and, yeah, just making it to 40.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Making it, why?

NOEL WALKER: Because indigenous people don't live as long as non‑indigenous people. A lot of people from my community and my family have lost people who were in their late 30s, so making it to 40 was a really big deal for me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Well you lost your brother, didn't you?

 

NOEL WALKER: Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  When he was 39?

NOEL WALKER: Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So is that why ‑ part of the reason why it was such a big thing for you?

 

NOEL WALKER: Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, it was a really, really big and joyous occasion for me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:   Okay, so a milestone?

NOEL WALKER: Yes, a milestone.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Dharshi, you're originally from Sri Lanka, I just wonder whether turning 40 has any significance for you, how do you feel when you hear these stories?

 

DHARSHI PERERA:   Certainly sort of, I think I resonate with the kind of ‑ I can relate to a bit of both of the ‑ like, I'm sorry, I can't remember the names.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Hedy and Jasmin, yep.

 

DHARSHI PERERA:  Yes, Hedy and Jasmin. I think there was a lot of build up for me, because I'd sort of, you know, kind of daunted it as well as wanted it because I sort of felt that this was a better place to be than perhaps 21 with all that anxiety ahead of me and have it behind me but also just trying to work out what's in front of me. 

 

JENNY BROCKIE:    And you said being a migrant made a difference in terms of turning 40? 

DHARSHI PERERA: Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  In what way?

 

DHARSHI PERERA:   Um, because I guess you measure your journey of, you know, what you've been able to establish in your life in this country as well, you know, so that's sort of an extra which we're ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Because you've started another journey in a sense? 

 

DHARSHI PERERA: Yes, but for someone who's not a migrant it can be sort of a given, I guess, and for me I started the journey here when I was ‑ I arrived when I was 16 and I had my family with me and then they went back. So I've sort of, you know, not all that uncommon now because there's a lot of international students who come and do the same sort of thing of adjusting in their, you know, late teens, early 20s to living on your own with a lot of family support but not physically.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you've had that time without family support in the run up, yep?

 

DHARSHI PERERA:  Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Interesting - Pinaki, you're originally from India, has it made a difference to you not being born here?

PINAKI CHATTERJEE: When she was talking about being a migrant and how it is, how difficult or how easy it is being a migrant I was trying to compare myself because I migrated twice. One from India to here and then I moved from here to Canada as a migrant and then I came back. So you can tell, like I had the same feelings, same type of sort of difficulties I had to go through twice instead of once. What a choice I had made.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Rick, what do you associate being 40 with?

 

RICK ALLEN:  I think for me, can I firstly say today this is a real therapy session for me. It's only really been about the last ‑ see I've been f‑f‑f‑forty for six months and I've only really said the f‑f‑f‑forty word a couple of times so for me it means a mixed reaction, I think. It's the reaction of the people that, you know, that are in your life, especially at work where I work with younger people and you see how they look at you being 40, that's sort of freaks me out just a little bit.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  In what ‑ how?

 

RICK ALLEN:  Oh, well, you know, I have a bad tendency to sing good '80s songs. You guys would know what I'm talking about when I say good '80s songs.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What is a good '80s song, by the way?

 
RICK ALLEN: Don't make me song you're so fine. I'm not going to. And, you know, I'll sing one that's a good classic Duran Duran number or something like that. And the looks I'll get from my 20‑year‑old staff is, you know, "What's that song, I've never heard it before." And I go "You haven't, have you, you're not actually making this up."

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  But in is inevitable. I mean we're interested in you as a group because you are the biggest age group in the country and a lot does happen in the run up to turning 40 but it's inevitable, you know, you're getting on. Why is it a big deal, Rick?

 

RICK ALLEN: Because the reality is, as you said at the start of the show, you're halfway through your life and the clock keeps ticking, there is nothing you can do to stop that.  You know, you can be as brave as you like, you can say okay, I'm 40, I can deal with it and soldier on but the reality is you've got a short window of opportunity to do everything that you want to do in a very short life and that is the challenge for me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Shelley, you're raising a family with your husband on a farm in far western NSW, how old do you feel?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: It depends on the day. We just finished shearing and I probably felt about 60 through some of those days. But ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Does it matter, does being 40 matter?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: No, I don't think so although I teach my children and sometimes I get very impatient in the school room and I start tapping my foot and clicking my fingers and my little girl says, "What, Mum?" And I say "You need to hurry up. I don't have any time to waste. Half my life is over."  So there's a little bit of pressure some days in the school room so I really identify with what that man was just saying then about the time is running quickly.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Did you have goals about turning 40? Were there things that you wanted to have achieved by that age or did you not think like that?

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: When I was younger I used to think oh, you know, I'd have all my children and I'd be a lot more financially secure and that sort of thing but I guess as I get older I realise that you can't ‑ as I get older I realise I don't have the control over my life that I thought I had when I was younger. So I'm a lot more accepting of what's happening in the time.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And what is happening, how many kids?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: Three.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Three?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And you wanted four, I think?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: I did want four, yes. All of our children are born in Olympic years and my husband said after the last one was born if we're going to have anymore children we better have a Commonwealth baby and that didn't happen so we'll see.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Naomi, you say you see 40 as a starting point, I mean people have been talking about time closing in on them and so on, explain why? 

 

NAOMI BERMAN: Just so much financial freedom and time, I've got a lot of time, I don't have children, so I've got a lot of time and I've got money to do things that I actually want to do now and I find myself drawn to doing quite wildly different things like I'm learning a language, I'm going to start par cor, learning par cor.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What's par cor?

 

NAOMI BERMAN: It's that free running, bouncing off buildings and things.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Oh, good, not planking.

 

NAOMI BERMAN: So for me I've never had any goals and I still don't. I'm trying to enforce a 6‑month goal on myself and I'm even struggling with that. So I don't know, it's I've got a lot of freedom and I'm exploiting that as an opportunity.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, Zelie, you're a stunt woman. Now you've just finished working on Steven Spielberg's latest movie, let's have a look at you here doubling for Antonio Banderas in 'Zorro'.  Maybe you might like to talk us through this clip and just tell us.

 

ZELIE BULLEN:  It took three of us to do this little clip. This is Antonio you see now. That's me going through the train roof and then cutting to a gymnastic double to somersault through the roof. This is me now.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  That's you?

ZELIE BULLEN: Yep.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And that's someone else? 

 

ZELIE BULLEN:  And that's a gymnast who's also one of his doubles.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  How long have you been a stunt woman?

 

ZELIE BULLEN: Almost 20 years, 18 years. 

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Around that's the first time he's used a woman as a double, yeah?

 

ZELIE BULLEN: A female, yeah, it is, it is. But the reason for that was I specialise in trick riding on horses and I have had a lot of practice standing up on horses - so Zorro wears some pretty impressive heels on his boots and spurs. So all of his other seven doubles hadn't had experience standing on a horse's rump and the horse obviously needed to perform too, he needed to buck so it was a specialist area.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So how have you felt turning 40?

 

ZELIE BULLEN: Actually - it was nothing to me turning 40. I think it's more been a concern to me other people's perception of what I do and how I live my life and thinking I guess people might think I should stop now that I'm 40, that sort of thing, as opposed to feeling like I needed to slow down.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you don't feel like you need to slow down at all?

 

ZELIE BULLEN: No, not yet.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Noticing any differences in the way that you respond physically to those sorts of things?

 

ZELIE BULLEN: I think I need to stretch more and I need to train more but I've always been the big believer in the more energy you use the more energy you get.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  I hope that makes everyone feel really adequate having listened to this story. It's very interesting that you're still feeling just so on top of something that demanding.

 

ZELIE BULLEN: Yes, still, so far.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Gavin, you're married with two kids, 13 and 11, you're another person who said you were happy to make it to 30, I think you said, why?

 

GAVIN MATE: Not too sure, Jenny. I think even in my teenage years just something there was telling me yeah, if I got to 21 I'd be quite happy and just repeated that as a goal somewhat to 30.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Is that because of things that were happening around you in your life?

 

GAVIN MATE:  Yeah, I suspect as an Aboriginal man and understanding what Aboriginal people go through in life and what I guess my mum and her extended family have experienced, I think some of that perhaps was rubbing off and I was paying respect to, yeah, if I can get to those milestones I'd be, yeah, quite chuffed.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So what's being 40 like?

 

GAVIN MATE:  It's great. I guess being married, two kids, an Aboriginal man with a career so, yeah, can't ask for more.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Brian, we talked to you before, I'd just like to come back to you because you're a single dad, you've got two kids, 40 has seen big changes for you in your life, tell us about them?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT: Yeah, it's been a bit of a journey, to say the least. Yeah, single dad, two kids, unemployed, yeah, it's been an interesting journey to get to here. I went through, I don't know whether it was depression or just sadness, just to be in that particular point in your life where you are 40 and you look back and you think gees, you know, you've not really achieved what you'd like to achieve or be where you'd like to be, so I went through a pretty hard time with probably alcohol and drugs and that kind of thing.  Just to work your way through it to get to the point where you need to get to the stage where instead of feeling sorry for yourself and worried, you know, woe is me, well no‑one else is going to say woe is me so I've kind of like just moved through it and basically tried to be in a positive mindset to get to the point where even though I'm 40 I'm still me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  That's a big adjustment, yeah, to go from being in a relationship to being out of one, particularly as a parent?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT: Yeah, yeah and also with the parent thing too, I get labelled kind of thing, that I may not have the kids for say two weeks but when I've got them they're my responsibility and that's fine, I'll look after them. But I'm still me, I kind of get labelled as a single, you know, a single dad kind of thing but when I haven't got the kids I'm still me and, yeah, and with the adjustment kind of thing where I really got to the point where, you know, you can continually feel sorry for yourself at home and continually using band aid methods, whether it's alcohol or whatever and that doesn't really solve the problem, you know, you get to the point where we need to move forward and start to be happy again.

JENNY BROCKIE:  Tonight we're with an audience of 40 year olds, the biggest demographic in the country. Rick, earlier you were talking to us about finding it unnerving in your office. Tell us a bit more about that, about what it's like working with younger people?

 

RICK ALLEN:  I'm sure they will be chuckling right now but look, I think a good way to illustrate it would be an example. Just the other day where I was quite proudly walking through the office with great air of confidence and one of my staff members, she's ‑ I'll out her on television ‑ she's about 58 and I was wearing these jeans actually and she said, "My son wears jeans like that" with real attitude and I thought wow, you know, I didn't even associate the jeans that I was wearing that would be, you know, a younger person, not a 40‑year‑old.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So this is about being put in a box, you feel like you're being put in a box now?

 

RICK ALLEN:      Definitely, definitely.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  In a way that what, you weren't when you were 39?

 

RICK ALLEN:      It happened overnight, absolutely it did. It's definitely being put in a box. I think a lot of it is just in jest but it's still there, you know, it's still mentioned.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Hands up how many people in this room have embraced the fact that they're middle aged?  Yeah, quite a lot of you, that's good, that's good because you are nearly. Nearly - not quite, not quite middle aged yet - Okay, over here, yep.

 

WOMAN: Watching those kids on the video at the beginning, when I was a kid I thought 20 was old and 30 was old and 40 was old but now that I'm 40 I think of it as really young because I know people who are 60 and 70 and 80 and I really think of it of probably how I thought of when I was 10 how old I thought 10 was because whatever age you are I think you don't think that that's old because there's always people older than you.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  How much are people preoccupied with looks at 40? Here, in the room. Hands up. Lots of people, yes, up the back.

 

WOMAN: I don't think it's ‑ I don't think it's an obvious preoccupation. I don't think we sit in the mirror and just go "Oh my god, I look like crap" or "Oh my god I look so great." I think because we're at an age now that we can make these choices about how we look with a lot more security we're doing things more for ourselves.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What sort of things, are you talking about cosmetic procedures?

 

WOMAN: Anything, anything. Whether it be exercise, dietary, changing your lifestyle and the way you eat, the amount of alcohol you drink or not drink, plastic surgery – Botox - all that stuff.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So do you have Botox?

WOMAN: I've had it, I've had it, I've done it once because I just wanted to see what it was like and I loved it. I thought it was great. Would I do it again? Maybe, depends on the mood.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And what was that about for you doing that?

WOMAN: I had my 40th birthday party and I didn't want to frown and it was great. I distorted my face so much and I couldn't get a frown and it was awesome.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So it was just for the party?

 

WOMAN: Yeah, it was just for that, yeah, and it was fantastic.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Whoa, that's a first, I haven't heard that as the reason to Botox before. Belinda, what about you, what are your attitudes towards this and towards Botox?

 

BELINDA SPROULE:   Look, I'm open to anything. I think when you hit 40 you're more conscious of getting older and you do, you think about your health, you think about, you know, what other options you've got out there. You're certainly not opposed to it.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Melissa?

 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What about you?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    I thought 40 was just fantastic. I do, I think it is fantastic.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What do you think about things like Botox and ‑ I mean are you preoccupied with ageing, physical effects of ageing?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Do I look like I'm preoccupied?  Have a look at me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  I think you look fabulous.

 

MAN: You look 35.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  But I mean do you relate to anything the women behind you have been talking about?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    No, no, no, no. For me it's about making it through a good day's work and if you get to the end and have a shower and come out looking half decent it's great for hubby.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  That's being out in the bush, you see, it's a whole different way of approaching life. Shelley, what about you?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN:  Um, mine isn't so much about looks as level of fitness and that's what I'd sort of like to improve and that's just, I think, that's the stage that I'm in in my life, just bogged down with the kids and not maybe taking enough time for myself. So I don't think that that's a 40 thing. That could be happening if you had, you know, three kids before you were 30.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Now you're twins.

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN:        Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So is there anything that goes on between twins about ageing and about milestone ages?  I mean do you assess one another yourself against one another?

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN:    There was, because some years ago when we were 38 she kept saying we're nearly 40 and ‑

 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:  I couldn't wait to get to 40.

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN:   And it angered me so much and I just said to her one day "Well you might be nearly 40 but I'm not." And my little girl said, "But how can that be, Mum?"  She said, "You're twins." And I said, "Well if she wants to be 40 she can but I'm not there yet."

 

JENNY BROCKIE:   Rick, you had your hand up when I asked about whether people were concerned about age?

 

RICK ALLEN:      I pushed it up I think. I'm conscious of it. I think I agree with what was mentioned over there. If you look good you feel better. Now if that's the reaction that you get from making that change then I think that's a healthy thing. I mean I like to take care of myself, I'm fit as well and I do by man moisturiser these days and, you know, I think those things are important. But as long as it doesn't get too out of control.

 

ALIYYAH CORNISH-WARD: I think if you feel good you look like. Like I plan on diving into my grave looking totally worn out and I kind of think that if you have a lot of lines around your face from smiling and laughing then you're going to look fabulous, who cares if you ‑ well I mean I can't really get into the whole Botox thing because that's like point putting cow poison into your body. Kind of grew up on a farm, thought that wasn't a good thing to do to yourself.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, Brian?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  I never really felt 40 or old until I started the process to come here. I got a hair cut on Friday and I want to look as best as I possibly can.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Thank you, Insight.

   

BRIAN TAUBERT:   The guy offered me Botox - He offered me Botox - I've never had ‑ Botox.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What, the hairdresser said that?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Yeah, he goes "We go Botox as well." "Thanks for the offer but I'll just stick with the hair cut, thanks, mate."

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Well you didn't just stick with a hair cut.

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   No, I didn't, I clutched at straws, yeah. Maybe first and last time I coloured my hair. The world knows, it's the first and last time. I was going to go the tips but they said no, no, we don't do tips anymore. Alright, alright, I just didn't want my hair to ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So why did you colour your hair?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   Sorry?

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  The kids had something to do with this?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Yeah, yeah, my daughter ‑ my daughter's not shy. She said to me "Dad, at the back of your head you've got a lot of white hair." Oh, sweetheart, alright, well I can't do much about that. Well I can actually so that's the reason why Friday I went to the Botox hairdresser.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  We'll talk a little bit more ‑ let's talk a bit more about relationships because it's a really interesting age for relationships. 40 is the average age for a man to separate from a relationship, did you know that? And it's 37.7 for women by the way so they've already gone by the time the men decide to end relationships. Brian, that's exactly what happened to you, isn't it? Can you tell us a little bit more about that, about what happened?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   I suppose it's hard, it's really hard. You don't necessarily have a social group that have say - a partner that you'd like to be with, that you find attractive. You don't necessarily go to nightclubs anymore. You don't necessarily go to your discos and things like that, you go to the pub. Well I go to the pub. There's only a limit at the pub so to speak so you find an avenue where you get to meet as many people as you can or meet people, whether that's online, through dating websites, whether that's ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Home shopping. That would be a help.

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Yeah, so that's whether online, through dating websites or whether that's you meet people on say dinners where you meet say five other strangers who are single and you go to a random restaurant kind of thing.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So are you doing all that at the moment?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Yeah, yeah, if I'm going to do it let's do it properly. I want to try to meet as many people as I can and make an educated decision that maybe I can make a connection with someone.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What are you looking for in a woman?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  Oh, here we go. I'm looking, I'm looking for someone who's attractive to my - to what I believe is attractive.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And what's that?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:    Well, we'll have to go to bikini model straight away, that would be straight up there, but they'd have to be ‑ they have to be attractive on the inside and the outside.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  But would you prefer a younger woman to a woman your own age if all things were equal?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   With the exception of this audience, yes. Well being I'm being honest.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What do you think women want in a 40‑year‑old man?

 

WOMAN: Money.

 

MAN: Money.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Money? Is that what you think?

 

MAN: It's my personal opinion, yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  You think women want money? You think women want a 40‑year‑old man to have money?

 

MAN: I think most younger women if they're going to date older guys that they want to make sure that they're financially secure and can provide for their needs and wants.

 

WOMAN: We can make our own money - we don't necessarily need to rely on a man to do that for us anymore.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Christine, you're married and you've got four kids and you're also a psychologist. I know you've got views about online dating - do you want to share those with us, where you think the limitations are?

 

CHRISTINE BAGLEY‑JONES:   Well, Jenny, I think it's a positive step because it's difficult to meet someone especially when you're in the 40s and having the opportunity to go online and peruse a greater number of people probably increases our chances of success. It's casting a wider net and it's a lot easier.

 

JENNY BROCKIE: The figures also say that there are more women than men aged 40, surprise, surprise by about 3,500. Now Fiona, what's the dating scene like for women at 40?

 

FIONA MANN:    Going back to what you were saying with Brian before, the age thing, personally I'm finding as a 40‑year‑old woman, generally the 40‑year‑old men really aren't interested in us.

ZELIE BULLEN:  I agree with that too because what is it, is it just looks alone and physique or stuff that makes you want someone younger?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:   Look, looks definitely have to be a factor. It would be lying to say that. I don't want the one with the lazy eye and the mono brow. I want ‑ they're pretty if they're pretty but my thought of it is if I have a connection with someone who's 40 or have a connection with 30 I don't really think it's so much the age. But if ideally you had to choose, I would like to go younger, I really would.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Gentleman over here, I don't want to pick on Brian. I want a few other blokes in this conversation.

 

MAN: I separated a month after turning 40, I was in a 10‑year relationship so then I looked into the online dating scene and it was a bit daunting but I found it an effective way of meeting people, certainly a lot more so than a lot of other means. But yeah, it sort of helps with making friends and then potentially lead on from there.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you fit the demographic perfectly.

 

MAN: Pretty much, I guess.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  You're one of those men at 40 who separated. Can you see why, why at 40, why not 35, why not earlier, later?

 

MAN: It was 10‑year relationship, probably started around 30, we didn't have kids and it was a mutual decision. The relationship wasn't working so it was time to move on. I don't think I have any particular hang ups about turning 40 but I guess possibly on a subconscious level it was time to move on and ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So a bit of taking stock around that age?

 

MAN: Possibly, but not something I dwelled on.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Yeah, not something in the full front of your mind.

 

MAN: It was just something that seemed to happen.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Poor Brian's had a bit of a ‑ there's been a bit of picking on Brian over liking younger women. Naomi, I'd like you to sort of chime in here because you're single and you say you like men around 29, why 29 at 40?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:  It's just a coincidence. It's just who I'm attracting, who I'm attracted to. I'm very pleased this week they launched a website called Cougar Life.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Cougar life?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:     I mean, my feminist kind of impulses are outraged but at the same time I think it's actually kind of like what Marguerite is saying. I think women actually ‑ and I don't know if you want to ‑ I think women are marginalised by the current dating website because men filter them out if they're older but you've got this website Cougar Life and there's cubs looking for cougars and it puts ‑ I feel it puts women in a bit more of a powerful position in this medium.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Brian, what do you reckon about that?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  I was waiting for everyone to say something. It's exactly the same.

ZELIE BULLEN:   I do want to ask you what is it about a 29‑year‑old that ‑ do you know or is it just physical and just "rrr"?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:   It feels like it's been an accident but clearly it hasn't.

 

WOMAN: Do you say you "Don't talk or you'll spoil it" sort of thing?

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  I want you to say that again because people at home might not have heard. What did you ask?

 

WOMAN:  I said, you know, do you say to the guys "Don't talk you'll spoil it", you know. Just being cheeky.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Do you?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:  I'm going to fess up they've all been Japanese the last three, three 29‑year‑olds.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  This is getting more and more interesting.

 

NAOMI BERMAN:   Yes, but ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What is it about because there's an awful lot of talking about men liking younger women but there are also women who like younger men and I wonder why. Is it because, you know, they're more pliable as somebody said they think women are as a younger person in a relationship. What is it about ‑ is it about physical things?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:   Yeah, they're nicer to look at.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  They're nicer to look at. Simple.

 

NAOMI BERMAN:    Well, yeah. I think ‑ I mean society fetishicises youth anyway so it's like, you know, for me to be kind of singled out because I'm just pretty much, you know, I'm actually playing according to the social norms, really. So that's, you know, that's my ‑

 

HEDY DAMARI: I married a younger man and I ‑ it was a disaster because ‑ Our husbands are younger as well. In fact I've got about five friends who all of their husbands are 3 to 5 years younger.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  This is really interesting.

 

HEDY DAMARI:  And it's a fallacy that they're all immature at that age and they're not ready to settle down. I found my husband was more keen to settle down than I was.

 

WOMAN: How much younger is ‑

 

HEDY DAMARI:  Three years which isn't huge but we've been married for 10 years so ‑ and I find yeah, the majority of my friends are all married to younger men.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And does that impact on how you feel about turning 40 at all?

 

HEDY DAMARI: Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Does it?

 

HEDY DAMARI:   My husband's Mediterranean with no lines whatsoever and I'm constantly trying to throw him in the sun to get a few lines. Not really but I mean, I guess you do sort of think about it.

 

WOMAN: I say I am along with the girls because my experience is I got married when way 29 I met a musician and it lasted one year and a half so it was just an experiment maybe for another one. And all my partners were very much younger than that. So I don't know, if because when you get into a stage you get in love with someone then they ask you your identity and it's too late. So sometimes there is no rules, I think. It's just ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  We've accidentally netted a trend here. We've got a lot of women who are involved with younger men. Yes.

 

MAN: You can have a young 50‑year‑old and an old 30‑year‑old, it's not really so much about biological age, it's the attitude and the lifestyle, how they look after themselves in general, I guess.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Simon, you're married with two kids and another one on the way. Have you taken stock of anything at 40?

 

SIMON THOMAS:     Look, I may buck the trend. I think my kids are keeping me young and the concern for me is that at 60 I'll have three kids probably living at home. So the challenge for me is to maintain a physical life that allows me to keep up with them, I think. So the beauty for me is that it hasn't been a milestone in terms of me feeling old, I've now got lovely kids that are making me feel young, so it's good.

JENNY BROCKIE:  Tonight we're with an audience of 40‑year‑olds, the biggest single age group in the country and one in four of today's 40‑year‑old women won't have kids. Melissa, you had two goals to reach by 40, what were they?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    You tell me and I'll remember it.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Get married was one. 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Get married and have children.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Getting married and having kids. So how old were you when you met your husband?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Probably around 38, 39, yeah, 38, I think.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay and you married how close to 40?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    I was 39 and a half.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Right, so you just squeaked it in? 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What about kids?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Trying hard. Not happening yet - Trying.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, so you haven't given up on the idea at all?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Oh, heck no, no, no, no.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay. Are you aware of the chances? Do you know the statistics on how likely you are to get pregnant and have a child at 40?

 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Not the specific statistics. But I'm aware that the statistics they'd look at are over a range of people that I'm hoping hit Maccas a lot whereas I probably am trying not to fit that criteria and so I lead a very healthy and physical lifestyle which I hope puts me in greater chance of falling pregnant to, you know, achieve another goal.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you're doing everything you can to make sure that you're fit and healthy? 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Would you think about IVF?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    I won't say no because I think it's always easy to go oh no but then  in five years time I said to my husband the other day if we get to 45 and we haven't had children, are we too old? You know, by the time they're 20 we're like "Change his nappy." I do think there's a cut off period.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So your twin sister has kids, I wonder what that's like for the two of you, you know, given that at this point in your life you're in very different situations in relation ‑

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    I'm a great aunty - I'll just point that out.

 

SHELLEY HOLMDEN: She is a great aunty. I think it's really hard, Jenny, because I know how much she's wanted a husband and a family so because we're twins and we're very close part of me feels a little guilty that I have those things and I haven't had an easy run with having children either so I understand the pain that comes with that. And I think a lot of comparisons that we've been speaking about tonight it's especially so the focus when you're twins and you're at different stages in your life. I've been married for 20 years, I have three children. Melissa's starting out with her marriage and her family and I think the spotlight is a lot stronger on her because of that. So I really feel for her because of that.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay. Naomi, you buck all the trends at 40. Aside from liking 29‑year‑old men, kids, mortgage, relationship, tell us why you buck all those trends?

 

NAOMI BERMAN:   Um, I've never really wanted kids, it's not something that's ever really occurred for me. I've never ‑ I just want freedom, I guess and I see mortgages and kids and probably even relationships with, you know, older than 29‑year‑olds as something that's going to put a limitation on my freedom. So it's not really ever been there for me and also probably what the common over there you just think you've got all the time anyway and so it's never been present for me that I've been on this particular path and I should stick on it.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Noel, you don't have kids either, what about your peers and your family, your more extended family?

 

NOEL WALKER:  All my ‑ I've got to estimate here because I'm not quite sure but I've got about 33 nieces and nephews and probably about 25 or 26 great nieces and nephews. So coming from such a big family my ‑ I've got ‑ well I had six brothers, one sister and, you know, having all of these nieces and nephews around and of course it was really good, I'm a great uncle, also, to them, but I like the fact that yes, I could sit down with the kids and have a bit of a talk and a bit of a yarn and then take them back and say there you go. Give them back to their parents.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you're bucking a bit of a cultural norm too, in your community, yes?

 

NOEL WALKER:  Yes.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And what's that like?

 

NOEL WALKER:  Um, well, it's ‑ I suppose it's interesting for me because having such a large family and large extended family and things like that, having a lot of people around all the time but living by myself I see that as being my little castle, I suppose, so I can go home and lock the rest of the world out if I want to.

 

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE: But your little castle's lonely.

 

NOEL WALKER:  No, it's not. My little castle's really nice.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Melissa, for anyone at home who didn't hear Melissa saying the little castle's lonely and you're saying it's not.

 

NOEL WALKER:  No, no.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Paul, I know ‑ I wanted to ask you about kids. Do you want to have kids?

 

PAUL LEE‑MAYNARD:  Yes, there's a part of me that would love to have children, yep. I've gone through, I guess, periods of my life where that may have been possible. Now it's not and to explain I guess I'm a 40‑year‑old gay man, I've been in a same sex relationship with my partner, loving partner for seven years. He doesn't want to have children and, you know, I have to respect his choices and we're at a point in our lives where he's 44 in November, that, you know, career and security around mortgage and travel and things like that are more important to us than having children.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  More important to him or to us because you said you'd like to have children?

 

 PAUL LEE‑MAYNARD:  More important to us in terms of us as a couple. I would say that, yes, I'd love to have children however I don't see that that's an option for us as a couple.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And how do you feel about that?

 

PAUL LEE‑MAYNARD:  Um, that's hard, particularly as I'm actually only 10 years old in terms of gay years. I came out ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Young to be a father.

 

PAUL LEE‑MAYNARD:  Yeah, it's very young to be a father. I came out in my 30th, 31st year so that was a significant time of turmoil for me. But in my previous relationship, and we were together for nine years, still great friends with my ex‑wife, we did try to have children and in fact I relate to some of the stories. We attempted to go through IVF a number of times and through miscarriages and so on. But I almost see that that was an opportunity that, you know, perhaps God was saying to me or nature was saying to me that it's not the right thing for you now. Whether it happens in the future I guess I don't know.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So this is a real journey for you in terms of the issue of having kids as well as the rest of your life, isn't it?

 

PAUL LEE‑MAYNARD:  Yes, yeah. I'm lucky, I'm a godfather to one of the boys of some really great friends of mine in New Zealand and I am an uncle, if you like, to other friends who have got children. But it's not a formal father connection, I guess.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Pinaki, let's move on to questions of money now, because you're a financial planner and you're married with two young kids, are you where you want to be financially at 40?

 

PINAKI CHATTERJEE:      No, I'm not. I do see a lot of people in terms of my profession and I do get to see what's their scenarios are when they're 40 and what they've achieved, what they haven't. So if you take that as a sample, like to compare with myself, I don't see that I have ‑ there are people who are ‑ who haven't achieved what they wanted to achieve. There are people who have achieved more than what they wanted to achieve but I, myself, no, I don't think I have achieved ‑

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So are you struggling financially or are you reasonably comfortably off?

 

PINAKI CHATTERJEE:      I'm reasonably comfortable but, you know, my target would have been owning my own home by 40 and I have seen people have done that and it's not that they have done it by virtue of having inheritance or anything like that, there are people who have achieved it at 40 which I haven't and probably you will find many of us who haven't achieved that yet, that's a goal we all have, we're all choosing, we're all choosing that goal. 

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Everyone's agreeing with this, yeah?  Owning your own home's important. No, no, Rick?

 

RICK ALLEN:      No, I have no desire. I mean if I own a home that's fantastic but it's not something that I'm actively seeking. I'm very content living in my fairly large rental accommodation, you know, with the four dogs and it's comfortable. I don't aspire to have this, you know, that Australian dream of a home. I think that's something uniquely Australian and I think I've got some different priorities, similar to probably what Naomi.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, others? Dharshi ?

 

DHARSHI PERERA:   Being someone who started afresh in Australia, that was something that we had to plan for as a couple, my husband and I wanted to have a home and, you know, have a mortgage and we therefore planned. We got married in '98 but we didn't have our child Ashikar until 2006 because we wanted to have a good crack at getting, you know, some of the mortgage cleared before I would have to take parental leave and, you know, one of us would have to care full time for our children.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So where are you up to with that? How financially secure do you feel at 40?

 

DHARSHI PERERA:   Not as secure as what we would like to be - family was important, we wanted children and it wasn't until, you know, we actually went to, you know, actually try and have a child that we realised look, it's not going to happen like that because I had a miscarriage and, you know, you had to like get over that and wait and try again. So it's not, you know, it's not all going to fall into place.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  So you make all the plans in the world but they don't necessarily ‑ life doesn't go according to the plan. Interestingly, nearly a quarter of 40‑year‑olds is spending more than a third of their income on housing. Renting or buying, people, what's the ‑ most people buying, few renters, who said renting? Hands up. That's interesting, quite a few of you, and buying?

 

WOMAN:  And investment properties.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:   Oh, investment properties, okay.

 

WOMAN: Everyone.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  How many investment properties here just out of interest? How many people with investment properties? Okay, so a smattering of that as well. What about health?  Melissa, you're a grazier now but you got a shock when you're a nurse seeing some 40‑year‑olds, tell us about that?

MELISSA NESBIT‑LEE:    Well, as a nurse we often had patients come to us with chronic cancers and lung disease and you'd be looking after them on a ventilator and then, you know, you'd say to the nurse oh, you know, the other nurse, "How you going" and she'd go "Can you look after him while I go off and have a fag" and you'd be like well hang on a minute, you're just nursing a patient that's dying of lung cancer and you want to run out and have a fag? So it was ‑ I couldn't understand how they couldn't see what was happening in front of them and for me it was like oh my god, this is scaring me because these people, we just let them die after a while and you cannot save somebody after they have abused their bodies so long, for so long. So it's just like well, the evidence is there for you, why do you keep doing?

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  I know too, Noel, your own brother's death at 39 affected your attitude to your own health, tell us about that?

 

NOEL WALKER:  Yeah, well talking about smoking I'm in the process of giving up. I've only had one today so I'm very proud of myself for that. But yeah, also, you know, seeing the effect that's had on both myself and my family with losing my brother at a young age has prompted me to start thinking about okay, well I'm 40 so it's time for me to start making changes in my life so that I can live longer.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And what's your health like at the moment?

 

NOEL WALKER:  My health is pretty good at the moment in terms of that but out of all my brothers, out of my six brothers besides my brother who's passed away, three of them have had heart attacks, all around the age of 50. So I've sort of thought to myself well okay, now I'm 40, the next probably 10 years for me is going to be very important for me so that I need to look after myself, I need to make changes in my life.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And you have a couple of conditions yourself?

 

NOEL WALKER:  I have a couple of conditions myself.  I suffer from high blood pressure so I take medication for that and I also have type 2 diabetes so I take medication for that. So making these changes in my life is, so the instructor at the gym told me, that probably in 6 to 12 months time I can throw all the medications away but I think they're only doing that so she can torture me.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, Zelie, what about you, you were seriously injured doing a stunt that you wanted to pull off by the age of 40 - this was a goal that you had this particular stunt, is that right?

 

ZELIE BULLEN:    It was when my girlfriend said to me what do you want to do for your 40th and I had a think about it and I thought I think I'll go under the belly of a galloping horse.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Let's have a look at the stunt you're talking about, this isn't you, by the way in this pic.

 

ZELIE BULLEN:    Okay, so that's my mentor. That's a lady called Connie Griffith and she is who has inspired me throughout all of my years of trick riding and it is her son that is my trick riding instructor.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And that's the trick that you wanted to do and you got very injured trying to do it. Tell us what happened.

 

ZELIE BULLEN:    I was just in a live performance and the horse flipped. He just slipped on the corner and flipped. So it was as simple as that. But that trick I'm in training for again now.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What happened to you with the injury? 

 

ZELIE BULLEN:    I broke and dislocated my ankle but also broke my talis bone to the point where they said that I wouldn't ever do stunts again or trick ride and I would probably walk with a limp. So that was just over a year ago.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And you're walking.

 

ELIE BULLEN:     Oh yeah.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  And you're doing tricks again.

 

ZELIE BULLEN:    Yeah. I think it's a big mindset talking about it's just how you look at things. I mean I understand, I really sympathise, empathise with you trying to have children right now and thinking it's about how you approach things. I mean I could be wrong but it's always worked for me and the doctor who stood at my bed and told me that he just put my foot back together last night and I really needed to think about a career change - broke my heart and for 10 minutes I cried until my husband just about slapped me and said, "Why are you listening to him? He doesn't know you, he's very used to, you know, the statistics" and my sister who I adore said, you know, "You are sort of approaching 40, maybe you should think about something else" and every cell in my body just wanted to say no. So I decided to ‑ I decided to get better and keep going, try it again.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  What next, Brian?

 

BRIAN TAUBERT:  I don't know. I've kind of like got the ‑ my mindset is fate, destiny, the way things work out. Like a week ago, to think that I'd be here in Sydney from Melbourne, like just blows my tiny brain. It's like oh my god, I'm here. Like I didn't think that was going to happen. I don't know, I really don't know. I just keep plodding along and see how I go. At the end of the day I kind of like my attitude now is just be positive, that's my mindset.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Yes, up the back.

 

WOMAN: I was just going to say someone mentioned that this is midlife and I disagree. I mean who knows how long we'll live. My great grandmother was 96 or 97 when she died so I mean who knows how long we're going to go but I'm going to have a long one anyways.

 

JENNY BROCKIE:  Okay, good note to end on. A lot more to talk about. We can keep talking ‑ you can keep talking to our guests on our live chat. If you're in the eastern States hop on to our website and click on the link. You will find some surprising stats online about being 40, plus a timeline from the past 40 years with everything from the profound to the ridiculous, so do check that out online as well. Thank you everyone very much for joining us tonight. It's been great.