Clive Hay is a musician foremost and a former member of the South African Defence Force during the Apartheid era. He has just released a book titled Magirus - The Story of a Second Class Citizen. This is not a political book. According to him it is a commentary on the South African Defence Force from the times of compulsory national service, as well as being a story that is close to his heart. Martin Kwakwa spoke with him. Before their chat, here's a bit of his music.