Food writer Lee Tran Lam points out that bread accompanies many meals and customs across the planet. There’s the Armenian wedding tradition of draping lavash on the shoulders of the couple getting married and it’s hard to imagine Australian brunch without Vegemite or avocado on toast. The act of nursing sourdough starter during the COVID pandemic has a long lineage – people also did this in ancient Rome and in The Bible, too.
But our attitudes to this carb have definitely transformed over time.
The rise in people with coeliac disease and gluten sensitivities has led to more interest in wheat-free alternatives. And the emergence of carb-shunning Atkins, Paleo and keto diets has seen people deserting baguettes, buns and brioche.
In my role as a clinical dietitian... you're talking to people about their diets and they go, ‘and I don't eat any bread!’ They say it in the way that they're expecting you to go, ‘Oh, that's great’.Dr Evangeline Mantzioris, Program Director of the Nutrition and Food Sciences at the University of South Australia
But is it actually great to avoid bread? Dr Evangeline Mantzioris gives her take on whether bread deserves its contemporary reputation for being a carb worth avoiding.
And are dietary trends the only way to measure the value of a loaf?
Lee Tran talks to chef Xinyi Lim, who grew up with roti and gained a lot of attention for her Start The Spread project: she sent sourdough starter through the mail to keep people occupied during those early periods of COVID isolation.
I think I received close to a thousand requests for sourdough starter.Xinyi Lim
Bread has long been considered essential in France. In 1775 alone, 300 riots broke out throughout the country, sparked by rising bread prices. Last year, the baguette was added to the UNESCO World Heritage List, which is apt as the country sells 6 billion of the distinctly French breadsticks a year.
So Lee Tran interviews chef Sebastien Syidalza, who grew up in France, about the country’s strong bread culture and his experiments with creating gluten-free loaves at his Sebastien Sans Gluten bakery in Sydney – his attempts haven’t all been disaster-free, but he knows that it’s important to persist. “Being French, bread is a must,” he says.
What is a bakery without bread?Sebastien Syidalza
Credits
Should You Really Eat That? is created by Lee Tran Lam
Mixed by Max Gosford
Artwork: Grace Lee
Theme music: Sydney Sunset by Nooky
Transcript
This podcast is recorded on the land of the Gadigal of the Eora nation. I’d like to pay my respects to elders past and present and recognise their continuous connection to Country.
Xinyi Lim: It was incredibly overwhelming, I think I received close to a thousand requests for sourdough starter.
Sebastien Syidalza: When we were doing the charcoal bread, the charcoal itself was really gritty. You could feel that under your teeth and it was not enjoyable.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: In my role as a clinical dietitian, you know when you're talking to people about their diets and they go, “and I don't eat any bread!” and they say it in the way that they're expecting you to go, “oh, that's great.”
Lee Tran Lam: The oldest bread that still exists today was first charred and baked 14,500 years ago in Jordan. And archaeological evidence suggests Indigenous Australians were making bread 65,000 years ago. It’s a staple we’ve been eating for a very long time, but it’s also hard to ignore the growing number of people saying no to bread plates and loaves, because they believe it’s bad for them. Are they actually onto something?
I’m Lee Tran Lam and you’re listening to Should You Really Eat That?
This show explores the cultural, social and nutritional confusion over the staples in our diet.
Should you be consuming more tea, less coffee, should you skip the rice, bread, seafood or cheese? It can be bewildering keeping up with what’s quote unquote good for you and so many different beliefs shape what we consume – what’s fact and what’s fashion and whose perspective is being overlooked? Untangling all of this can be tricky, which is why I started this podcast.
Today’s episode is on bread
(Sound of bread popping from a toaster)
From Japanese shokupan to Sudanese kisra, bread accompanies many meals around the world. And our appetite for loaves and slices goes back centuries – remember how people nursed their sourdough starter during that first COVID lockdown in 2020? Well, that bread-making custom was all the rage in ancient Rome, too. Yuin, Bunurong and Tasmanian man Bruce Pascoe has talked about the discovery in Kakadu of ancient grindstones, which suggest Indigenous Australians were crushing seeds into flour to make bread 65,000 years ago, and therefore were the world’s first bakers.
Australians are known for their damper, their love of fairy bread, slathering our toast with Vegemite or avocado, and we adore our Turkish bread – which mysteriously doesn’t resemble actual bread in Türkiye.
And the Armenian wedding tradition of draping lavash on the shoulders of the couple getting married is just one example of many bread customs around the globe.
Despite all this, people have been visibly ditching bread from their diets, claiming it’s the healthy thing to do. But are dietary trends the only way to measure the value of a loaf?
Let’s start by talking to a chef who’s shaped a lot of dough throughout her career.
Xinyi Lim: Hi, my name is Xinyi Lim and I'm a chef and a food consultant. I've worked in New York and Sydney at restaurants such as Marlow & Sons, Cafe Fredas and Firedoor.
So growing up in Sydney as a first-generation Chinese immigrant, my relationship with bread was very unexciting and unimaginative, I'd say. Bread to me came in oblong loaves wrapped in plastic from the supermarket.
The other kind of bread that I remember eating growing up was when I would go back to Malaysia and visit family and we’d eat a lot of roti.
Lee Tran Lam: Roti is the word for bread in Javanese, Malay, Urdu and other Asian languages, and when you see it on a menu here, you’ll imagine a flatbread known for its scrunchy, flaky appeal.
Xinyi Lim: You know, roti is a vessel for a lot of delicious things like curry. It's eaten at breakfast. It's just used to dip a lot of different things. So, there’s also roti pisang, which is roti with bananas. It's also just delicious by itself. So it's really exciting to watch as a child when you see chefs roll it out, fold it and just fry it on like you know, big griddles. It's a much more exciting process than buying a loaf of bread from the supermarket.
Lee Tran Lam: Xinyi first began professionally baking bread at a farm in Upstate New York in 2019.
Xinyi Lim: So I was first introduced to sourdough bread when I did a chef residency at a farm called World's End and there was a wonderful person there called Zoë. And she herself had started baking bread relatively recently, from a bit of sourdough starter that she had acquired from one of the bakeries up there. She gave me my first bit of starter. From there, it became a passion of mine. I would bake bread when I could and that was really when I started baking bread with my own sourdough.
Lee Tran Lam: In early 2020, Xinyi ended up in Sydney for her sister’s upcoming wedding and various other reasons. Then Australia closed its borders and the chef found herself stuck here with a big question mark over her future. Like many other people during this period, she found solace in baking bread. It became the focus of her Start The Spread project.
Xinyi Lim: Anyone who has baked sourdough bread before knows that unless you are using your starter every day, it results in a lot of excess starter – which you're meant to just throw out. Back over in New York a woman I used to cook with had started a project to dry sourdough and mail it around the US through her project called Bread On Earth. I reached out to her, got instructions and started doing the same thing, so drying it out, and sending it in Australia. I gave some starter to the sister of the digital editor of Gourmet Traveller at the time, Yvonne C Lam, who then interviewed me, published an article and after that, the story spread.
The Start The Spread project got a lot of coverage. So at its most intense it was, it was incredibly overwhelming, I think I received close to a thousand requests for sourdough starter. I ended up sending out, I don't know, 800 around Australia. At one point, it was definitely a full-time job for me, you know making, drying the starter, dividing it, packaging it up, mailing it. And also just the communication. You know, people send you an email and it's often you know, really heartfelt emails, so you want to respond appropriately. I also started to ask recipients to send me back an image of their first loaf of bread after they'd made it. Now I have this wonderful archive of first loaves.
It was equally about finding opportunities to give and to share bread and starter with others and maintaining a social connection despite the physical isolation that we were surrounded by.
Lee Tran Lam: Later, she began her Family Meal food-delivery project. Each order helped raise money for charities, like the First Peoples Disability Network and each week, her menu focused on a different cuisine, from Peruvian-Chinese cooking to Lebanese food.
Xinyi Lim: I was able to kind of explore breads from each of those different cultures. I made murtarbak which is a stuffed Malaysian flatbread with egg and beef. I made Adjaruli khachapuri, which is that iconic like boat-shaped Georgian bread that's stuffed with cheese and egg. Nan-e barbari which is a Persian flatbread with nigella and sesame seeds. And a lot of these breads, I incorporated my sourdough starter even if they traditionally might not have had sourdough as I was still baking and nurturing my starter.
Lee Tran Lam: Her bread-making continued when she became head chef at Sydney’s Cafe Fredas.
Xinyi Lim: Sometimes I would serve the sourdough focaccia that I made alongside burrata with pumpkin mole or a beetroot pkhali which is a Georgian beetroot dip that was inspired by the research that I'd done for Family Meal.
Lee Tran Lam: Xinyi later worked at Firedoor, became a food consultant and she’s currently on maternity leave, but her bread-making isn’t entirely on pause.
Xinyi Lim: My starter is still alive and it just sits dormant in the refrigerator but it is comforting to know that I can come back to it whenever I want.
Lee Tran Lam: There was a lot of love for sourdough at the pandemic’s start – which was quite a change from the anti-bread mood shift we’ve seen in recent decades.
And I don’t mean people who’ll legitimately have their burger in a lettuce leaf rather than a bun, because they have coeliac disease or a gluten sensitivity and even just a few crumbs will make them sick. I totally get the need to avoid bread if consuming it makes you physically ill.
But among the wider population, perhaps because of the carb-shunning approach of the Atkins, Paleo and keto diets, I’ve noticed people really rejecting bread, saying things like consuming bread is worse than cake. Bread’s been repeatedly paraded as a nutritional villain. But the pandemic definitely changed this perspective.
Xinyi Lim: The sourdough starter project that I was involved in really reflected this. You know there was a dramatic turnaround in our society's attitude towards bread and baking.
Before that, people were all like, “oh, I don't eat much bread, I'm trying to reduce my gluten intake,” etc.
But you know at the time if you recall there was this shortage of commercial yeast and flour at the supermarkets alongside some other basic necessities and the shops were really empty and you know this is another sign of our systems, our supply chains, collapsing in the face of a global crisis. So our mainstream return to bread was a visceral reaction to this fear. I think at a time like that, we return to what we know and what's comforting and familiar and bread is certainly one of those things. It's existed well before any of our lifetimes. Bread has been a staple around the world since the beginning of civilisation. Through that time, it's taken on so many meanings and is symbolic of so many things.
Lee Tran Lam: I think of korovai, Ukrainian wedding bread: a couple tears off the first chunks of the beautifully decorated loaf and the person who pulls off the larger segment of bread is predicted to rule the house. According to the Smart Mouth newsletter, the recipe traditionally requires seven happily wedded mothers to work the dough, but finding seven happily married wives who are up for the task can be tricky, so it’s also sold at specialty bakeries instead.
Bread’s cultural connections go back a long time – as writer Paul Feinstein points out on the BBC website, there are sourdough baking references in the New Testament, which means this bread-making style must’ve been widespread in the 1st century AD.
And then there’s matzoh …
Xinyi Lim: For a Jewish family meal, I made matzoh, which is the unleavened flatbread that I guess traditionally was made in haste. You have to bake it in 18 minutes, because that's, I think, how much time they had before they had to flee.
Lee Tran Lam: That time represents how long it took for the millions of Jews to flee slavery in Egypt – they didn’t have time for their bread to rise.
As we revisit these cultural connections to bread across time, let’s remember that we’ve always protested for the right to affordable bread.
There was the Flour War in 1775, when 300 riots broke out throughout France, sparked by rising bread prices.
In Brisbane in 1866, there was the Bread or Blood Riot, and more recently during the Arab Spring movement, protesters said they wanted “bread, freedom, and social justice”.
So adopting an anti-bread stance in an affluent, Western country like Australia can – in some eyes – come across as a bit of a modern privilege.
Bread is, after all, a lifeline. In Japan, you can buy tinned bread in vending machines, because if there’s an earthquake or other natural disaster, it’s an ideal emergency food. It’s shelf-stable, doesn’t require refrigeration, lasts a long time, and it’s filling. With baked dough, you can feed a lot of people on a small budget.
Xinyi Lim: Bread continues to exist as a staple and a fundamental necessity for most people around the world.
Let’s talk to someone who grew up in a place where loaves and buttered slices are key to the country’s identity.
Sebastien Syidalza: Okay, so hi, I’m Sebastien Syidalza. I'm the owner of Sebastian Sans Gluten in Leichhardt, Sydney.
So I grew up in France, I was born in Versailles and the culture of bread in France is really important.
France famously takes its bread very seriously. A French Revolution law – which dictated that bakery owners had to coordinate their holidays with each other, so that locals would still be able to buy bread regardless of who went on vacation – lasted for two centuries and only was lifted in 2015. Last year, the baguette was added to the UNESCO World Heritage List, which is apt as the country sells 6 billion of the distinctly French breadsticks a year.
Sebastien Syidalza: There is always a place that you will find bread. If you can't find bread, you’re not in France,
Lee Tran Lam: And unlike Australia, where you might buy a sandwich loaf and live off it for a week, France has long had a culture where you buy fresh bread repeatedly over the course of a day. You might drop by your local boulangerie for your baguette in the morning, and also stock up before dinner, too.
Sebastien Syidalza: That's correct, you buy bread for any time of the day because you can have bread in a sandwich, you have bread and butter with jam in the morning for breakfast and you have also like bread with your salad at dinner. Sometime you just have like a piece of bread and cheese before going to bed. You don't even need to have a full dinner. So bread is really part of it.
Lee Tran Lam: Dominique Anract from the National Federation of French Bakeries and Patisseries, told The New York Times that when a French baby cuts their teeth, their parents offers them a baguette stump to chew on; and one of the first chores a French kid undergoes, is heading to the boulangerie by themself to purchase a baguette.
But the country’s affinity for brioche, baguettes and other types of breads has declined significantly over time – yes, in Paris, 9 in 10 residents live a 5-minute walk from a local bakery, but for the last half century, 400 artisanal bakeries have closed down every year, usually in rural towns, as supermarkets and franchises take over. And French consumption of bread has dropped by 90 per cent over the last century or so.
Around the world, attitudes to bread and the way it’s made have changed, especially with the rise of people experiencing coeliac disease or gluten intolerance.
So what’s gluten? Well, it’s a protein found in grains like wheat, rye and barley – and it plays a key role in loaves
Sebastien Syidalza: It will capture that air and give that lightness and stretchiness of the dough. That's the role of the gluten in the normal bread. Which is really difficult to achieve into the gluten-free world.
Lee Tran Lam: But avoiding gluten is essential when you have coeliac disease – even using a toaster that contains a few bread crumbs can make you very sick. A friend of mine will get three days of migraines if she eats something that has the smallest trace of gluten and then she’ll be sapped of energy for two weeks.
That’s why it’s vital to offer gluten-free options for people with coeliac disease or sensitivities. And that’s a driving force behind Sebastien’s bakery, Sebastien Sans Gluten. He underwent many experiments to create his wheat-free loaves.
Sebastien Syidalza: We threw a batch of bread [laughs] a lot, we threw many batches of bread, but it was like good for us to see what would work. We adapted, with nuts, with fruits, with seeds, with different shapes and what cooked faster and what cooks longer.
Lee Tran Lam: Not everything he tried worked.
Sebastien Syidalza: At the time we were trying, it looked good and then we’d cut it and you have like a big hole into the loaf and you don't understand why.
When we were doing the charcoal bread, the charcoal itself was really gritty. You could feel that under your teeth and it was not enjoyable. For some some other things, like the weight would change. So the water needed would be different because the seeds absorb more water than if there is no seed at all.
Lee Tran Lam: Despite the challenges and failures, Sebastien knew having gluten-free loaves on his shelves was non-negotiable.
Sebastien Syidalza: Being French, bread is a must. That's why it has to be included into my shop. What is a bakery without bread?
Lee Tran Lam: Running a bakery can be intense and at one point, he was sleeping just two hours a day to keep up with demand. But for Sebastien, those long kitchen hours are worth it when people react so warmly to his gluten-free creations.
Sebastien Syidalza: This is amazing when you receive a hug from a customer like just asking the customer, “how was it?” Because you know that customer is new in your shop or even like the regular but when you see people and you ask them like, “how was it?”, and they hug you before even answering? Well, this is really moving. You cannot express it, you just say “thank you”. But inside, you're like “oh wow, that's really good”. And that person tells you afterward, “ah, you changed my life, that's life-changing to have this type of product and I wish you could open a shop like that near where I live”. I've got people sending me an email from America, saying, “oh I wish you could open something like that near my place because the level of bread that we've got there is not the same, so thank you for doing it and I promise when I will come in Sydney that's the first thing I'm going to do – try your stuff”.
That's really rewarding and that's what gives you the boost to carry on.
Lee Tran Lam: He also noticed people’s attitudes to bread changing because of the pandemic.
Sebastien Syidalza: For the last decade, I’d say that people tried to avoid it, because they were trying to get on the healthy side. But then when people, they start to stay at home with the pandemic – well what is there to do except eating and enjoying what you're eating? And they try to be like their own baker and that was fantastic to see how many people they tried. Now I hope people carry on doing that because bread – when you have a loaf of bread, you're not gonna eat that by yourself, you're gonna share it with somebody. For centuries and centuries, you had bread and you were sharing that loaf of bread and that piece of bread, it’s been there like, even in the Bible and everything. I don't think that it will ever go away.
Lee Tran Lam: Like Sebastien, I’ve noticed people dropping bread from their diets for apparent health reasons. It’s a big 180 from my schoolkid memories of the Food Pyramid – bread and grains were a sizeable part of it, and we were encouraged to get into toast, sandwiches, wraps and loaves. In that time I’ve seen different breads cycle into fashion – Italian focaccia ruled the ’90s, then Turkish bread and more recently artisanal sourdough and bread baked with ancient grains like khorasan and dark loaves encrusted with a diverse shell of crunchy seeds have turned up on bread plates and sandwiches. They’re quite different from the mass-produced sliced white bread that’s lined supermarket shelves for decades.
So how do we make sense of what we *should* be eating? Let’s talk to an expert and find out.
(Sound of someone crunching into bread)
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: I'm Dr Evangeline Mantzioris, program director of nutrition and food sciences here at the University Of South Australia. I'm also an accredited practicing dietitian.
I absolutely love bread. My background is Greek, so we've always had bread as part of the meal. Bread is used as cutlery as well. When I went back to Greece and visited friends and relatives there, they would use a fork and they would have a bread in the other hand and the bonus being that then that bread becomes soaked in the cooking juices.
One of the other things that Greeks do a lot and I think everyone knows of the Greek salad, which has tomato and lettuce and feta and olives in it and when you put the olive oil and the vinegar into the salad, what you do at the end of the salad is actually dip your bread into that and eat that bread that's got those salad juices in it. But you know we always have to remember not to do it when we've got guests over, because it's the sort of thing you do just with your family around [laughs].
Lee Tran Lam: It’s not something that just happens secretly in her household with Greek salad, either.
On SBS’s bilingual podcast The Ugly Ducklings of Italian Cuisine - Scarrafoni in Cucina, presenter Massimiliano Gugole talks about how Apulians love sea urchins, particularly eating it “a scarpetta”, which he describes as “the Italian tradition of soaking anything saucy with a piece of bread”.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: And that's the amazing thing isn't it, that every culture has a type of bread. It's the universal food and it existed before we had high-level transport between countries and they all developed their own breads with different ways of cooking it and you just get such wonderful breads.
Lee Tran Lam: Though we’ve been eating bread for millennia across the world, Dr Evangeline has noticed the recent dietary backlash to this staple.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: In my role as a clinical dietitian you know when you're talking to people about their diets and they go “and I don't eat any bread!” and they say it in the way that they're expecting you to go, “oh that's great!” And I go “well, that's not so good, is it?”
So yeah, there's definitely been a push away from bread and we could probably also group into that pasta and rice – you know those carbohydrate staples.
One of the reasons it's become so unpopular is probably because of keto sort of diets, or the high-protein diets and the basis of those is that if you don't consume any carbs, your weight loss will be accelerated.
Lee Tran Lam: But when you cut out carbs from your diet, you basically shed water, not body fat.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: And that's why people see a really rapid weight loss when they go on low-carbohydrate diets. It's because they're losing water. They're not losing what they want to lose. They're actually just losing water and so people go, “oh that was great, I lost two kilos in three or four days, that's amazing – I'm going to keep doing this!” But you're not actually losing what you want to lose.
Lee Tran Lam: Yes, some of us need to carefully manage our intake of carbohydrates, and that’s the case for people with diabetes – but sometimes carbs are talked about like they’re some kind of dietary evil, which isn’t exactly the truth. Dr Evangeline explains that carbs help fuel our everyday activities. So striking them out entirely isn’t the greatest idea.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: What's more concerning is the nutrients that you're not getting when you're not eating bread. So bread has been a staple. It's amazing when we look in history about how bread is spoken about – we say, let's break bread together. And it really is a really healthy nutritious food.
It's not a really big source of protein, but it's a valuable source of protein – particularly for people who choose not to eat meat or may not be able to afford to eat the meat.
It contains fibre in it. Now fibre, we need about 25-30g a day to reduce our risk of getting colon cancer. So you drop the bread, you've lost the major group. The other thing it contains is the B group vitamins and B group vitamins are those things that give us vitality. They make us feel energetic and what they actually do is help convert the glucose into energy in our body, so they're really critical for feeling good.
Lee Tran Lam: Other handy nutrients you’ll find in bread are iron and zinc, particularly in wholegrain loaves. They are a healthier choice than plain white bread – as are seed-crusted loaves.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: Okay, so you have two slices of bread or you have three slices of bread. It can end up being up to about a quarter of your daily intake of iron and zinc. And you can do things to maximise the absorption of iron from breads and cereals by including a vitamin C source with it. So for example, having a sandwich and having a couple of slices of tomato in there or capsicum, which are high in vitamin C.
Lee Tran Lam: If you’ve heard that bread’s full of hidden salt, Dr Evangeline points out that ultraprocessed foods, like bags of chips, are bigger sources to be concerned about. Of course, don’t go overboard with your toast and sandwiches. Stick to the dietary guidelines – which is 4-6 serves of grains a day, where 1 serve can be 1 slice of bread, with a preference for healthier wholegrain and high-fibre varieties.
There’s also a neat trick for dealing with the salt in bread.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: The most important thing to counteract the impact of sodium in the diet is to have lots of potassium. Potassium is found in high amounts in fruits and vegetables. The more fruits and vegetables you eat, you're sort of diluting the impact of the salt in your diet.
Lee Tran Lam: So stack some tomatoes, carrots or greens into your sandwich. Or make a Greek salad …
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: And then soak your bread in the juices.
Lee Tran Lam: And as noted earlier, if you have coeliac disease, you should definitely avoid bread made with gluten.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: For anyone else who doesn't have coeliac disease or a gluten sensitivity, there is no benefit to avoiding bread. In fact, they're more at risk of deficiencies if they do. It's a bit like saying, “oh, I could see some people have peanut allergies and they don't eat peanuts, so I better not eat peanuts, either” – it doesn't work that way. And if you suspect that you've got something going on with your gut, don't make your own diagnosis. You know, observe yourself, eat the foods, see what happens. And then go to your GP.
Lee Tran Lam: The rise of gluten-free diets has definitely raised awareness of alternatives to wheat and rye. There are First Nations efforts to develop an Indigenous grain industry, with native millet and kangaroo grass some of the gluten-free grains that grow locally. There’s a great episode of SBS’s Bad Taste podcast with Jess Ho that explores Indigenous grains with Bruce Pascoe – I definitely recommend checking it out.
There's also rising interest in gluten-free ancient grains that originate from Africa such as fonio and teff. You might’ve enjoyed teff in a spongey Ethiopian bread called injera, where it essentially acts as a sourdough plate for enjoying dishes such as doro wat (a chicken stew), or gomen, made with greens.
Dr Evangeline Mantzioris: Rediscovering what they call those ancient grains or the Indigenous grains that are used is also really good. Because not only are you ensuring their survival for future generations to consume and saving the seeds and that's a really important part of the environmental sustainability, but it also highlights the culture of all these different groups and keeps those alive between different generations.
Food provides us with nutrition, right, and energy and I'm a nutritionist and that's really important. But it also provides us opportunities to connect with people and food brings people together and that's always going to be an equally important aspect of food in our society.
Lee Tran Lam: Should You Really Eat That? is an SBS podcast. It’s written and presented by me, Lee Tran Lam. Thank you to the SBS Audio team, Max Gosford, Joel Supple and Caroline Gates, for their contributions and guidance. The brilliant artwork is by Grace Lee and the theme song is Sydney Sunset by Yuin artist Nooky. The email address for the show is audio@sbs.com.au.
On the next episode of Should You Really Eat That?, we’re putting the kettle on and brewing, drinking and spilling lots of tea. Follow on your favourite podcast app and feel free to spread the word and tell people about the show.
