You was born into this world. You have a place and you have a name… Darling, legacy is you.Crystal Love Johnson
Hosted by Yumi Stynes, SEEN is a podcast series about the trailblazers who persist and succeed without positive role models in mainstream culture.
In this season you'll meet trailblazers like pro surfer Pauline Menczer, renowned artist Lindy Lee, community chef Duang Tengritrat, Tiwi Island Sistagirl Crystal Love Johnson, and more. Hear how these women defy convention as they grow older.
Follow SEEN on the SBS Audio website or app, Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Credits
Host: Yumi Stynes
Producers: Laura Brierley Newton, Olivia O'Flynn
Sound Design and Mix: Ravi Gupta
Executive Producer: Kate Montague and Lorna Clarkson
Theme Music: Yeo
Art: Evi O Studios
SBS Team: Joel Supple, Max Gosford and special thanks to Caroline Gates
Original concept by: Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn
Transcript
YUMI STYNES (Voiceover): We start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we record... the Gamaragal [Cammeraygal] people and Gadigal people, and their elders past and present.
We also advise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners that this episode may reference people who have died. It also includes some references to traumatic events.
If anything comes up for you, you can call Life Line on 13 11 14, or the Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander crisis support line on 13YARN.
CRYSTAL LOVE JOHNSON: Being a role model. It's hard.. it's really, really hard. But you know what? You have to do it because.. You was born into this world. You come with something and you will die with nothing. But you know what? You have a place and you have a name… Darling, legacy is you.
(Theme music)
STYNES (Voiceover): I'm Yumi Stynes and in this season of SEEN, I'm talking to trailblazing women who are in their third act. Older women who have lived full lives, done amazing things, AND found a vivid sense of purpose as their hair goes grey.
As I approach 50 years old and MY hair turns greyer, I'm looking for guidance from older women. What is the secret sauce to aging well?
I hear a lot of negatives about growing older - but now I want to celebrate.
If you listen to every episode of SEEN you’ll notice that there are a few things all our guests have in common. They all live with a sense of humour and a sense of purpose.
They have all manifested their futures when the future they wanted seemed unattainable.
And they all overcame adversity and no matter how bad things got, they retained their drive to create, participate, and live gloriously.
Perhaps none does humour, purpose and fabulousness better than our guest today - Crystal Love Johnson.
When I was growing up, conversations around gender fluidity did not exist. Queerness was something people often needed to hide to remain safe; and Mardi Gras hadn’t even started when I was born.
And yet despite huge risk, there were women like Crystal Love Johnson whose queerness intersected with Indigeneity - forging the path for future generations of LGBTQIA+ people.
(Music)
Crystal, a proud Lajamanu woman, is a drag star and comedian who has performed at the Sydney Olympics Opening ceremony, and met everyone, from Princess Diana to Mother Theresa.
But in the late 90s, she was just a blak kid from the country, dazzled by the gay scene in Sydney.
LOVE JOHNSON: The first time I did it was in Sydney and it was, like the first Mardi Gras I've ever been in, 97. And then when I did the first show on stage at the Imperial, in Newtown, oh my God, you wouldn't believe this, I ended up pissing, so to say, I ended up pissing myself.
And it's like I was scared, like, you know, when you're stage frightened, and I just went out, and all of a sudden, I just wet the floor.
STYNES: Did anybody notice?
LOVE JOHNSON: Um, no, everybody was chucking water, like everybody was like, thinking, and I just grabbed a bottle of water, and I was chucking it all over the ground, and pretending I was doing a number, and it's like, oh my god, and I said, I was pissing myself laughing, darling, I did piss on the ground, I said to one of the elders were there, and he said, oh, you did a good performance, wetting yourself, and I said, yeah, I said, I did, but I was desecrating the ground, forgive me, and they said, what do you mean by that, chucking water, and pissing on the floor.
Murder on the dance floor, you know what I mean?
STYNES (Voiceover): The Crystal Love Johnson in front of me today is a sparkly light year away from that jittery young drag queen wetting herself with nerves. In a scene full of the sculpted and contoured, the nipped and the tucked, Crystal’s grounding in her culture has made her one of Australia's most unique and iconic drag queens.
She has been a prominent figure and advocate in the LGBTQIA+ community since the 1990s.
But before all of this, she was just a Lajamanu kid growing up in her community on the Tiwi Islands.
(Sound of waves lapping at a beach)
LOVE JOHNSON: Oh Tiwi Island's a beautiful place. It's like paradise for me and it's where is home for me and for everything that I believe in my community. You know, it's everything - your spirituality is there, your community is there, your culture is there. It's everything that a person needs.
STYNES: Is it coconut palms and white beaches?
LOVE JOHNSON: Yes white beaches.
STYNES: What does it look like?
LOVE JOHNSON: Yeah, though you can’t go swimming because of crocs and, you know, jellyfishes and other things.
STYNES: Yeah. There's a lot of crocs.
LOVE JOHNSON: Yes, heaps. Darling, if you stick your leg in once, darling, you won't have it again.
STYNES (Voiceover): A life surrounded by white beaches and coconut palms sounds idyllic, but there were plenty of challenges for Crystal when she was growing up.
Her parents were struggling with addiction so her grandparents and the community stepped in to support Crystal and her siblings.
LOVE JOHNSON: So I got adopted out when I was a child at the age of six. And then my grandmother and grandfather were too old to look after us. But they still kept that Tiwi, um, how do you say, connection with us.
STYNES: Were there lots of kids?
LOVE JOHNSON:Yes, there were like, um, 19 of us plus other kids from the island. And you know, so we, we, we grew up in an environment where we just did normal things
so much playing and plus hard work doing chores like, you know, cooking for your brothers and cousins. But you know, we were learning as well, you know, to go out hunting and, looking for bush food. And our grandmother was showing us bush medicine and what plants to weed and you know, it's like, we just thought it was like a big game, like everyday life.
STYNES (Voiceover): There was deep connection to culture and country… but within Crystal there was a part of her identity that didn’t slot into the binaries that seemed to work for her siblings.
LOVE JOHNSON: I felt like I was a girl instead of a boy.
I used to love playing with girls. It was like my grandmother always made Goliwog dolls, she used to knit them and then stuff them up with coconut fibres. And so, you know, I always liked playing mummies and daddies and sort of like you gradually grow up to know that I should be a father, but I always wanted to be a mother. And that's how I knew I was different, like when I was growing up as a child we didn't know much about gay life and gay issues and other things about your sexuality. And you know, people used to say well you’re not a lubra, in Tiwi way (speaks in Tiwi language) - means, it means you are not a woman, you’re a man. A man with nuts, as you say, and I said, Oh, don't talk about my peanuts. You know, and, you know, my humor played a big part in my life.
STYNES (Voiceover): This humour, and the stoicism of her elders allowed Crystal to imagine a future bigger than what she had been shown.
LOVE JOHNSON: I was so lucky that my grandparents, you know, taught me to be a child and to actually to dream of what you believe in your dream. And to, only you can manifest that dream.
White people call it manifestations. Some people call it dream time. You make your dreams come true. It's about you connecting with your spirit. But I believe that as you get older, that helps you in a way where, I've been abused. You know, sexually, mentally, physically, you know, I've been around the ropes. But you know at the end of the day, my dreams, my goals, my spirit helped me to get where I am today.
(Music)
And my grandmother always say, Dream time is just around the corner. But dream big. When you dream big, then you will know who you are.
STYNES (Voiceover): It was incontestable: Crystal knew who she was.
But coming out to her family wasn't easy. The threat of mockery, exclusion, demeaning verbal abuse and physical violence was real.
But in Crystal’s story there was a pivotal moment of inclusion that changed everything.
LOVE JOHNSON: One day they asked me to get up and dance with my brothers. And I got up and I said, no I don’t want to dance with my brothers. I'll dance with my sisters.
STYNES (Voiceover): Burial ceremonies on the Tiwi Islands are called Pukumani, a hugely important cultural ritual that includes ceremonies with singing, dancing to honour the dead so their spirits can leave the living world and enter the spirit world.
During these ceremonies, there are two groups of dancers: the men, and the women.
LOVE JOHNSON: And that's when my sister turned up and said, Oh, well, you know, if Crystal wants to dance with that woman, she can dance with all the sisters. We don't care as long as she's respecting the dead, or the family member. And I felt so shocked like somebody would stick up for me. It's like hello.
(Music)
That's when I felt the power of respect and love.You know, it was like a key opening a lock. That was a milestone for me because that's when, one woman stood up and said something, the rest followed. And I got a shock, like, even talking about it now is like, giving me chills down my spine. People don't realise that they were the law makers and the law breakers, they broke tradition. That was powerful at that stage.
And as a Tiwi person, as a Tiwi woman, a Tiwi mother, a Tiwi grandmother, Tiwi Auntie, Tiwi friend, you know, these women, stood up and said, let her dance with us. And that was the one word that resonated in my mind. Let her be. Let her dance. When she said that, it just, she just said it. Ah, let her dance with us, nah.
And that word just went out and it just echoed at the funeral ground.
And the ball just started rolling and I realised that I had to talk to my sister and mothers about who I was. And it was, it was a journey that I had to take, but in that moment, that was significant
STYNES: And Crystal I'm guessing that this advocacy, the way that she stood up for you, helped you later stand up for other sister girls, because you knew how important that first voice was.
LOVE JOHNSON: Yes, because, if I didn't have that, that presence of her, and her voice, I wouldn't be where I am today. That's how everything all fall into place.
(Music)
STYNES (Voiceover): Inclusion, acceptance and the power of Sisterhood is the experience that turned into purpose and has been woven through Crystal's life since that day.
She is one the founders of the Tiwi Island Sistagirls, who are a part of a network of communities that advocate for trans and gender diverse women throughout the islands.
Their mission is to support, respect and keep identity and culture alive.
LOVE JOHNSON: The first community was Palm Island. The second was Tiwi Island. Palm Island were the trendsetters. So we learnt from another community. But the different thing is that we have our culture as Tiwi sister girls.
We still practise, we still sing, we dance, we have our language. We both have our land, we have our culture. But we practise it more on Tiwi Island.
STYNES (Voiceover): The term ‘Sistagirls’ has huge cultural and historical significance.
LOVE JOHNSON: Well, a sister girl is really a transgender terminology. It's about we as women doing women's stuff, woman role, being the mother, the auntie, the grandmother, daughter-in-law.
And I got that name because my mother grew up with the Stolen Generation. Because people who got taken away from their community and grew up in homes, they didn't know who their cousins, who their brothers or who their sisters, and they didn't have, like, brothers and sisters, to call them family, so they, when they used to look another, another woman, they'd call them sister girls, or another, another man, they'd just call them brother boys.
That's how the name became the name. Brother Boys and Sister Girls, it came from the Stolen Generation. But my mother used to hang around with lots of, um, how do you say, butch lesbians. And they were like my uncles and fathers, my mum used to call them brothers. That's why, I thought that everybody's were brother boys and sister girls, you know.
And there, there is a cultural aspect of that name too as well because it connects people from different backgrounds to be related. And so I used that terminology because every gay people are connected in some way. You could be diverse. You could be he, he, they. I use culture as well to explain about how gay people live, how gay people have spirituality, how gay people be accepted in our community. I use my Tiwi way and my Wolperi way because I learnt all this from, from my family. And so I take little bits and pieces, put it together, and I use that in everyday life.
STYNES: So you set up a sister girl community on Tiwi.
LOVE JOHNSON: Yes.
STYNES: Why was there a need for a safe space?
LOVE JOHNSON: Because, there was no safe space in our community because people were getting abused, people were getting molested, people were getting ripped off, people were getting bashed. People were suffering from mental illness and suicide and that's, that's what made the shift.
So I fought for a house and I used that house as a drop in centre and educating people about, we all have needs, you know, people suffer with, depression, people need a safe haven, a place where they can sleep and be themselves, a place where they could restore their energy and give them life skills, and how to live and to be a better person. So I was so lucky that I lobbied and I wrote letters to the local government and also to housing and to skin groups. I did all that. I had help by other people who helped me.
I had to realise and start thinking out of the box. I had to think about my people, but also think about my gay community. And, I said we are a minority in our own community. So I had to lobby.
STYNES (Voiceover): In 2010 a documentary filmmaker, Bindi Cole made the film Sistagirl, which brought Crystal and her fellow sister girls mainstream exposure.
LOVE JOHNSON: Being a role model it's really, really hard. But you know what? You have to do it because you was born into this world. You come with something and you will die with nothing But you know what? You have a place, and you have a name, darling, legacy is you.
(Music)
STYNES (Voiceover): At age 50, Crystal has built a legacy as a community champion, Aboriginal Diva, and one of Australia's most unique and iconic drag stars.
After that terrifying first performance in the late 90s, it got easier. Crystal performed all over Australia - from the Tiwi Islands to Sydney. And meeting her, you can see what makes her so compelling on stage - she is dripping rizz and there is something utterly disarming about her feminine energy.
LOVE JOHNSON: Every time when I did shows, it was like I was a movie star. People come up to me like they remind me of Marilyn Monroe, or John Collins, or Elizabeth Taylor.
(Music)
I was fixated to in the 1960s and 70s and 80s, you know, with all these women and I thought that I was one of them, and everybody said to me you will be a star and I was a star in my own community. You know, people used to cry, when they see my performance people were mesmerised to see a big black aboriginal transgender lady doing these shows. And a lot of people say, we, we see that there's something about you.
STYNES (Voiceover): Crystal was finally Seen.
Not only was she fabulous, visible, and funny - she was creating pathways for others to follow.
LOVE JOHNSON: You can give to the gay community here in Darwin, the LGBTQ brother boys, sister girl community. You will make a change. And it's true. You actually made it into dream time, like you dreamed about it, and as I was a child growing up, it was manifesting.
That deep thought and that deep feeling and that, your spirit, uh, giving the universe that People of the Dreamtime, that connection with the country, that people that connection, the gay community felt that you had something to give to the community.
STYNES (Voiceover): But every story of a hero’s journey has to face some adversity.
For Crystal Love Johnson, it started as a seemingly innocuous infection on her foot. Crystal thought she could beat the infection by herself and put off going to the doctor.
By the time she sought medical help, it was too late. The sore had become a flesh-eating infection, which with Crystal’s diabetes, was potentially lethal. If she didn’t amputate, the infection would spread through her body, threatening her life.
The doctors told Crystal that her leg couldn’t be saved.
LOVE JOHNSON: When I was lying there with no leg, and I was thinking, how, how I'm gonna live? How I'm gonna survive? And like, I fell into a bad depression. And straight away I started thinking and said, nah, I can't do this because, I still have to live life till now.
STYNES (Voiceover): The resilient side of Crystal took the stage.
LOVE JOHNSON: You know I started doing exercise, actually training my mind again to not fall in the trap of depression and, you know, anxiety. Then I started thinking and doing things like, my life is still worthy to do shows.
STYNES: Mm.
LOVE JOHNSON: You know a one legged woman or a half a legged woman could do a lot of things, you know. I could do shows in my wheelchair and that's what I did.
I had to move on from where I left off because if I didn't do that then I might as well just jump in the coffin and bye bye Crystal. But you know what life called back to me and said to me, Crystal, you got another chance, which is true. I got another chance to be who I am today.
STYNES (Voiceover): Crystal set about rebuilding her life. But big changes had to be made.
She moved to Darwin, where she could access the care she needed. And it was a big adjustment to city living.
LOVE JOHNSON: It's different in Darwin and then in a community. A community is like, I can stay anywhere with family. Family put me in a corner and in that corner I can have my own seat and blanket and you know, I could live comfortably. But you know what, when I'm in Darwin, I don't have that luxury. You have to budget. You have to live how white people live. When you're faced with homelessness and all that you feel like your community is not there with you,
STYNES (Voiceover): This difficult time reminded Crystal of the importance of building community. And today she's in a stronger position to look out for her Sistergirls.
LOVE JOHNSON: We've got sister girls, like, in different parts, like, one, sister girls who are knowledgeable, who have jobs, sister girls who are just average, just being, like, normal people, just living with family. And at the bottom, we have sister girls who are not knowledgeable, and, the sister girls who help them.
I am in one of the top three. And people look at me, uh, she's an elder, she's rich, she has everything that's going for her. And when Tiwi people come to Darwin, they see me because I've got my own place. But it was hard work. Being on the list and housing, being an amputee, being, being gay, transgender, it's like, it's hard.
Especially when you don't have a place to stay. And especially when you've got to fight the system.
But you know what? You've got people there to guide you and help you to be where you are today.
(Music)
STYNES (Voiceover): Crystal is getting help and giving help.
She has created the community she needed growing up, so that other queer kids don't have to experience the same difficulties she did.
She is embracing her third act, as a role model for future generations.
LOVE JOHNSON: For me, it's, I lost everything that I lost. I lost my childhood. I lost everything.
But being that elder, I have to be a good role model to my people and to actually show people that you can change and you can make things happen for you as a person.
I am proud to be an elder. I am proud to be who I am.
Elders are not all perfect. An elder is like any other human being, but to be that elder. You earned that respect. You earned your love. You earned to be where you are today. To be a high status. To be like a queen, a role model.
I feel like that I am royalty. I deserve to be who I am. And I'm an elder and I would be treated as one.
STYNES: What do you hope you've accomplished for future generations?
LOVE JOHNSON: For future generation leaving a legacy behind in our communities, that is leaving something behind so the people can learn. We evolved and we're still learning in the journey that we take. And that journey, it will never stop. Even when I'm dead and gone, people will still recognise that name, Tiwi Island Sister Girls.
They can Google Crystal Love Tiwi Island Sister Girls. I'll still be remembered. People will still talk about me. I may be dead, rolling in my grave, you know, and at the end of the day I left something behind. It is like a ripple, you chuck a stone and the ripple in the water.
And I know that I will leave a legacy behind.
And I would tell my younger self to be proud of yourself. I would say everything will work out.
And for my younger self, to be true to yourself. And to love and embrace who you are and what you are. You will make your dreams come true. And I believe that. Somewhere over the rainbow. People say that you know, you kiss a frog and it turns into a handsome prince. Well, darling, that will happen in your life. You have to manifest that. You have to make that. And if it's hard, you have people there to support you.
STYNES: Crystal what would you say is the secret sauce to ageing well?
LOVE JOHNSON: Plastic surgery, just give me a little bit of Botox. Like I said, black don't crack because, you know, black people, it's really hard to age. Um, how old do you think I am?
STYNES: I actually have no idea.
LOVE JOHNSON: You reckon I look young?
STYNES: Yeah, you look young.
LOVE JOHNSON: Oh, thank you.
STYNES: 40, 48.
LOVE JOHNSON: Higher.
STYNES: 52.
LOVE JOHNSON: Lower
STYNES: 50.
LOVE JOHNSON: Yes.
STYNES: Okay. Black don't crack. You know, they say Asian don't raisin.
(Theme music)
LOVE JOHNSON: Yeah, oh, true.
People say the secret to success is loving yourself. It's like, you know, you change your life as you go along. It doesn't make plans for you. The plan is already set. You just have to live it.
STYNES (Voiceover): I keep thinking about this idea, that you can’t really plan your life, you can’t know what will happen - but if you just believe in yourself and love yourself…
It sounds so corny and is such a cliche - but also - who would Crystal Love Johnson be if she didn’t defy the expectations of those around her, defy the social norms, and stand up and dance with those other women that day?
Sometimes even the corny things are true: The secret to success is loving yourself.
This has been SEEN, hosted by me, Yumi Stynes, and produced by Audiocraft in collaboration with SBS.
From Audiocraft, Season 3 of SEEN was produced by Laura Brierley Newton and Olivia O'Flynn.
Sound design and mix is done by Ravi Gupta and Executive Producer is Lorna Clarkson and Kate Montague.
The SBS team are Joel Supple and Max Gosford with special thanks to Caroline Gates.
Our podcast artwork is created by Evi-O Studios.
And music is by Yeo.
SEEN’s original concept was by Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn.
