Whadjuk Noongar Journalist Narelda Jacobs is familiar with the experience of offering the only First Nations perspective in the room, having been a newsreader and TV presenter for over 20 years, including on NITV and Studio 10.
At times it's been a heavy load to bear.
I had to stand in solidarity with everyone… I held two hands on the paperbark tree, and I stood there for ages and I asked my Dad for guidance and light. Please allow me to search my words, because I could easily become public enemy number one here.Narelda Jacobs
In this first episode of Seen, Yumi Stynes chats to Narelda about finally seeing herself, speaking her truth and the responsibility that comes with being seen.
Hosted by Yumi Stynes, Seen is a podcast series about cultural creatives rising to excellence despite arriving in a role-model vacuum. Over the series you'll hear from trailblazers like writer Yassmin Abdel-Magied, musician Ray Ahn, Olympian Ellia Green and more about the transformative moment when they felt seen.
Follow Seen in the SBS Audio app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Host: Yumi Stynes
Created by: Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn
Executive Producer: Kate Montague
Producers: Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn and Cassandra Steeth
Junior Producer: Alison Zhuang
Sound design and mix: Ravi Gupta
Theme music: Yeo
Art: Evi-O Studios
SBS podcast team: Caroline Gates, Max Gosford, Joel Supple
Special thanks to Kearyn Cox
Clips from SBS’ coverage of the 2020 Sydney Mardi Gras are used in this episode.
Transcript
(Theme music)
Yumi Stynes: I'm sure you've heard the saying…‘If you can see it, you can be it’?
It means - if you show little girls female astronauts, they’ll know that future isn’t impossible for them.
But what happens when you look around, and you can’t see anyone who is like you?
I’m Yumi Stynes, and this is Seen. A podcast about trailblazers who, in the absence of role models, rise to excellence anyway.
I’m a half Japanese, half white Australian woman, who grew up on Wemba Wemba land four hours away from the nearest capital city - a small town called Swan Hill. Flicking between the two TV channels when I was a kid in regional Victoria, I never saw anyone who looked like me. I thought the media was closed to people who weren’t white, and frankly, I wasn’t completely wrong.
Despite this, I’ve had a career in varying roles as music reporter, TV presenter, radio announcer and podcaster for more than 20 years. But when I started, you were KIDDING YOURSELF if you thought you could do this work and not be white.
In this podcast, I’ll be speaking to other people who in spite of being told they don’t belong, have carved out space, found a voice… and are creating pathways for those who follow…
We’ll hear from people who, as adults, are treated like children, because they’re different…
Hannah Diviney: There would always be those people who would somehow assume that because I was in a wheelchair, I was deaf or couldn't understand what was going on, and they would come and stand right in front of my face and yell at me. And Mum would be like ‘no, she can hear you!’
Stynes: People who’ve been the first of their kind to become visible in mainstream Australian media, only to be profoundly, and crushingly punished…
Yassmin Abdel-Magied: There is a reason, there isn't yet another Sudanese hijabi woman that has taken my place.
Stynes: And one who started full of a sense of belonging, opportunity and confidence, only to have the world get up in her face and disagree.
Atong Atem: I thought I was that girl. I was like, I've got a Roxy backpack. Quiksilver swimmers. Like, You can't touch me. I'm at the beach. I look cute. I could be in Home and Away. And it wasn't until adults were like, “No.” That I was like, No?
Stynes: Because even when told NO, or that “you should aim lower” - our guests blaze trails, on their own terms, to exist in a state of being seen.
We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land we’re recording from whose culture includes a rich tradition of yarning and storytelling, the Cammeraygal and Gadigal people, and their Elders past and present.
(Theme music fades out)
Stynes: And a warning there’s some swear words ahead.
Narelda Jacobs: This happens a lot when there's a situation that needs an Aboriginal voice. I'm often that voice that is called upon and sometimes it's last minute, sometimes it's planned. But when there is something that needs an Aboriginal voice, you know.
Stynes: Suddenly you've got a job!
Jacobs: Suddenly I've got a job.
Stynes: Today I’m speaking to someone who really understands the responsibility that comes with being seen.
Jacobs: Hi, I'm Narelda Jacobs. A Whadjuk Noongar woman from Boorloo, Perth living and working on Gadigal Country of the Eora Nation. And I am a journalist, I'm a presenter and I've been in the media industry for over 20 years now.
Stynes: You might have seen Narelda reading the news on Channel 10, guesting on The Project, working on NITV, or sharing her thoughts on the morning talk show Studio 10. For Narelda, it’s taken a lot of work to get to the point of speaking up and sharing her perspective.
Jacobs: I think I'm still being seen. I'm sort of still unfurling myself as I feel safe in environments and that safety comes with being the change. Because when you walk into an environment that you think is unsafe, you - you fit in. For most of my career that's who I was, I was quiet. You know, I'm on a talk show now, but people back home would be really surprised about that because they were like, well, we never heard her speak.
We heard her read the autocue but we never actually heard her speak. What I think now is that probably my thoughts are so different from what they were saying I didn't want to be impolite by offering an alternate view. So I just said nothing. So I think that's probably why I was silent all those years.
(Music transition)
Stynes: The cameras, the lights, the speaking in front of a live audience is a long way from Neralda’s upbringing in Perth in the ‘80s. If you’re not familiar with Australia, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are in a cluster on the East Coast. Perth is right across the other side of the immense land mass, in its own time zone and a lot like a whole other country.
What’s stuck from her childhood is her family’s value of deep conversation. It wasn’t small talk and chit chat at the church barbeque, the Jacobs were a family of big thinkers.
(Music fade out)
Jacobs: Even around the dinner table. It would be a speech or it'd be devotions, a Bible reading or, you know, that type of thing.
Stynes: Narelda’s parents were advocates for Indigenous rights and heavily involved in the Uniting Church.
Jacobs: The conversations that we would have would be around improving the outcomes for Aboriginal people. It's all about what can we do for our, for our people, what can we do for mob.
(Music transition)
Stynes: Neralda’s father was a Whadjuk Noongar man and a pastor, and her mother was a northern Irish immigrant and the founder of the first Noongar Church in Perth. A family of 5 mixed-race girls was a rare sight in those days.
The White Australia Policy was a fresh memory, and the systemic forced removal of mixed race Aboriginal children, known as the Stolen Generations was still being justified. Indigenous people didn’t get to vote until 1975. Australia was steeped in racism.
(Music fade out)
Jacobs: You don't notice people's judgement when you're a kid. But my mum certainly did. And so for that reason we went to the shops or if we're at church or at any kind of an event or family gathering, we always had to look exceptional. There was a bit of quality control there with my mum because she didn't want people to look down on us.
Stynes: You know, your dad was part of the stolen generation and I think for a lot of Australians we don't really understand what that actually means in terms of a person's actual life. (Mmm) You know, it sounds like a headline. So, I was wondering, how does this apply to a man who is a father who is clearly a blak man? Did it mean for your dad that he was disconnected from his heritage, from his ancestry and from his culture?
Jacobs: I think he went through different stages throughout his life. My mom used to tell us a story about how when my dad and his brothers were stolen, the supervisor of the mission's wife laid out this beautiful afternoon tea for them. So these three Noongar boys, coming in from the bush, basically, and they had a teapot for themselves. They had sandwiches and cakes each for themselves and a white tablecloth on the table. And my mom would tell us that Mrs. Clarke wanted to honour them because she knew that these boys were going to be someone in our community, in our society, and be the leaders of the future. She wanted to honour them now in the state that they were in now. But on reflection, they were being colonised they were being told, this is what is good. This is what is right. This is the standard that you will now be living in.
Even to the day he died, he loved a pot of tea. It was a bit of a ceremony that went with it. And I'm sure it goes back to those days. And even now, when I get a pot of tea, I always turn it three times because that's what my dad used to like to do. (Mmm) Turn the pot, you know, so the handles facing you. And we never thought that he saw his parents again. But it turns out that when he was 12 he had permission to leave the mission and go and visit his mum, who was gravely ill. And as it turns out, she was gravely ill because she'd had miscarriages and stillbirths. (Gasp) Multiple, multiple ones. Because she was desperately trying to fill the hole of her children that had been stolen. I mean, that is absolutely heartbreaking. (Mmm)
He saw for himself the disadvantage after having lived away from his family and made the decision then and there to beat the white man at his own game. That's how he informed the rest of his life that he wanted to be the person that beat the white man in his own game. And so he did it. I think we were the product of that, all the daughters. All the five daughters were the product of that and we still are. And that's the legacy.
Stynes: And that legacy was built on a foundation of deep intelligence and the relentless interrogation of big ideas.
Jacobs: Sovereignty would be a word that would come up a lot in our family conversations. Sovereignty meant to be able to have treaties, to be able to have our First Nations sovereignty recognised that was the first sovereignty recognised that was the first sovereignty that was here. That we were many First Nations and we each had our own beliefs and value systems and ways in which we did things. And the most important thing was to look after country, that was our purpose. We were the ones appointed in the Dreamtime or in the Nyitting, as we call it in Noongar country. We were the ones appointed by the plants and animals to look after country because they weren't able to do it in its entirety, whereas people could see what needed to be done and had the ability to do it. So that is first nation sovereignty, it's got to be always going back to look after country to perform our duty, our cultural duty.
I feel really ashamed to admit that sometimes when my dad later in his life would talk about sovereignty, I would just go, “Oh, can we just- just talk about football or, you know, like, can we just watch TV together or why don't why does it always have to come back to this?” (Mmm) But it was something that he was fiercely passionate about, to the very end. He never stopped.
Stynes: Narelda’s father, Cedric, was active in Aboriginal politics his whole life. In the late Seventies, Cedric Jacobs was an advisor to the Minister for Indigenous Affairs and he was a Senior member of the National Aboriginal Council. They were the council responsible for creating a plan for ‘Makarrata’ - or what is now known as treaty.
Jacobs: So my dad knew the power of being in the room to change it. He was there, he was rubbing shoulders with the Prime Minister and the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. He had that proximity to power. Kim Beazley would refer to my dad as the Aboriginal Statesman, you know, because he was so distinguished looking my dad, you know again, perfect white shirt, beautiful suits, (Mmm) like perfect tie, beautifully manicured beard and hair like that. That's how I remember my dad. I was just so proud of him, like he had presence.
He also taught us that we belonged anywhere. We don't have any social anxiety because we would see my dad, he would walk into a room with him and he would just go up to everyone, meet everyone. By the end of it, they were coming up to say goodbye to him or, you know, he's always just had that power. So I think, you know, and it's a beautiful gift to have had. So when I think of him saying that he wanted to beat the white man in his own game that's what I think of.
(Music)
Stynes: He lived to be an old man, only died three years ago. (Mmm) What was he like in his final years? Did he become a bit disillusioned?
Jacobs: He did, Yumi. Yeah, he really did. The older he got, the more of an activist he became. Earlier on in his life he chose the path of “delicate diplomacy” He was a conservative Blackfulla. You need all you need all types to make change. But I think as the years went on and he could see that there were no gains, you know, the gaps were getting wider. Politicians say all the things that you want them to say. But what actually happens? I think that's where that disillusionment came from. And yeah, he became more of an activist and he would go to tent embassies and sit with people. And he, you know, would go to protests and things that he didn't used to do before (Mmm) and it turns out he would die waiting for sovereignty.
(Music fade out)
Stynes: The idea of “having to see it to be it” is exemplified by Narelda’s experience as a young girl and having her home filled with professional broadcasters wanting to talk to her dad.
Jacobs: He was called upon a lot by journos, by members of the media, TV and radio, newspapers. And so we'd get a lot of phone calls and we'd get news crews coming to our house and setting up. I remember one news crew, it might have been like the 7.30 Report or one of those types of shows.
I just thought, that's a really cool job. Imagine being the one who gets the story and has the power to tell the story. I was also really good at writing and telling stories. And that was my favourite subject at school. When the classroom was asked who would like to volunteer to read, I'd be like so excited to do the reading. So I already loved like reading out loud to the class. So I just loved all of it. I thought there was something kind of magical about it.
Stynes: (Mmm) To get to your first newsroom, to be a cadet journo, you know, to be broadcasting, to be writing. Were there obstacles because you're Indigenous or did you feel that there were no obstacles?
Jacobs: Well, I hadn't seen anyone on air. But what I did see on air was an Aboriginal magazine programme on SBS called, it was called, ICAM at the time and so I said to my lecturer, my head lecturer Jo McManus in Perth, you know, I said she was like well what's your dream job. And I said well ICAM because it was what I could see. (Yeah)
And so we were in Perth and you know, well SBS headquarters is well it was based in Sydney and so there was not really that wasn't really probably going to happen unless I could move from Perth, which I didn't really want to at that time. Her actual words were "Why? Why pigeonhole yourself? That's a great job, but why not go into a mainstream newsroom?" And so there was that guidance there. And so she kind of opened my eyes to think, well no, there's many different things that you could do just because we haven't seen anything, like be the thing that you haven't seen yet. (Mmm) So that's what I did, she helped me get my first job at GWN in Bunbury regional TV station and I kind of thought I'd already made it.
Stynes: For sure! And what do you people think of this Indigenous woman who and so young, like you're so fresh faced, what did people make of you? (Laugh)
Jacobs: They claim you. (They do!) Everybody claims you. Yeah, like people would think that I was from Bunbury because I went to Bunbury to work. People think that like I was only there for three months. I was actually only in that newsroom for three months before I got a job at Channel 10. And yet people still remember that time that I was, I worked in that newsroom. So yeah, I think it has more impact than I probably know.
Stynes: As her career was taking off, a LOT was going on for Narelda. At the age 18 she became pregnant with her high school boyfriend. There was a shotgun wedding that ended shortly after.
And while that was going on there was a part of Narelda’s identity unseen and unknown, even to herself. Her strong connection with religion had outlawed queerness to the point where she didn’t even consider it. Until…
Jacobs: It was when I was in front of gay people. In a gay venue, actually. The indoctrination is real when you're a kid. You know, I know a lot of gay people who still think they're going to hell and feel that guilt and shame like that's oh, that’s really that's really hard to to shake off. So that's what happened to me. And like even to the point where in high school, in a social studies essay, I remember talking about HIV, AIDS as being brought by God to punish the gays. (Gasp) I said that in a high school essay. I wrote it. I know, that was me. Like, that's why it's so important to teach kids critical thinking. (Mmm) Like, apply your own, you know, apply what's in your heart. Yeah, so it wasn't until I saw other people living their full, authentic selves and having a fantastic life, you know, and just being joyful that I realised I don't think that this is evil.
Stynes: And you had an attraction that was already active with a friend, that was very close…
Jacobs: Yes. My friend Marion, we worked together in the public service at the Native Title Tribunal. And we would have lunch every day. It got to a certain time, you know, in our friendship that I was just looking forward to going to work to have lunch with Marion. And then it became like morning tea and then like, afternoon tea. (Laughing) And then yeah. So, so that there was, there was definitely an attraction. And then we, so Marion was my first girlfriend.
So Jade was still a baby. There was so much going on. I don't remember like one moment of realisation going, oh my God, this is who I am. But it was a slow progression of wanting to take things further and I've got these feelings, but I don't know exactly what they are and I think that's probably what it is. This is like recognising that you don't have any control over what you're feeling.
And that's also the beauty of love, isn't it you kind of just give yourself over to a feeling and see where it takes you? (Mmm) Marion and I were together almost 16 years, her, and Jade have a beautiful relationship. She's like Jade's mum (Mmm) other mum, which is just gorgeous. (Mmm) Yeah. And we're still very close now.
Stynes: I love this picture of you as a young woman who's got a baby. Which is so hectic at the best of times. (Laughs) But you're practically still a teenager, and then, you know, going to a gay bar and going, oh, I feel really like, like a sense of belonging here. I'm seeing and feeling seen. At some point, you had to tell your mom that you're gay.
Jacobs: Yeah I was dreading that. It took three years of plucking up the courage. Well, and also, you know, that other trope that we hear, it's a phase (laughs) you know, and then that, you know, the three, three years knowing, okay, this is I'm so happy there's no going back.
Marion had a Catholic upbringing, but she was out with her family. And so it meant, me not being out with my family meant that she had to also be in the closet you know, that's unfair to someone. And she would come to Christmas, birthday dinners, family gatherings. She was that embraced by the family. She was like another family member. So I thought it was unfair that she was my "friend."
And so I had to sit my mum down and I felt out my sisters actually before this. And my older sister Karen, who like "Oh, well, we suspected." (Laughing) Which was actually the best thing that you could hear. And then. But then you think, why was I so nervous? Like, why did why and why has it taken so long? What was I so scared about?
(Music transition)
Stynes: Even though Narelda Jacobs is very openly gay today… there’s someone important she never got to tell.
Jacobs: Yeah my mum was a different ballgame and I couldn't face my dad. And I wish I did now. I think I that, you know, daddy's little girl type thing. I didn't want to smash the the bond that we had. But by not having the conversation, my dad, it kind of wrecked it as well because then there wasn't that openness. (Yeah) So I wish I did have that conversation with my dad.
Stynes: Narelda’s Dad passed away in 2018.… They had never spoken about her sexuality… And the conversations she had with her Mum… Well they didn’t go very well.
Jacobs: My mum cried. And she said, how long has this been going on? And I said, three years. And she said, “well, that's a lot to undo.” She also did say though “that I will always love you. And while I'll never be able to accept this. I'll always love you and you'll always be welcome at home.” So I took that as a win. That was a huge compromise on my part. (Mmm) And also, it was a huge compromise on her part.
My mum and I had a bit of an understanding that we wouldn't talk. It was kind of an unwritten thing. Like we just didn't talk about it because we would cancel each other out. (Laughs) And I think that, you know, my vote, my yes vote cancelled her no vote, but so I had to make sure I voted yes.
But she crossed the line in 2020 when I hosted Mardi Gras.
(Archival audio: “This year, we're rising to new heights and new grounds. Live and fabulous with your hosts, Neralda Jacobs…)
Jacobs: Hosting something like that for a national audience like that was I was just living my fantasy, living all of my dreams. And I was just on a such a high afterwards. And she rang me and she was like, “lovey.” And I was like, “What? What?” And she said, “I'm so disappointed.” I was like “what do you mean?” She said, “the thing that you did on the weekend.”
And I could not get off the phone fast enough. I was like, beyond upset, you know? You know, when you're beyond upset and you want to cry, but you can't it was like the world stopped during that conversation and you can kind of intellectualise it afterwards. But I realised like after that she breached that kind of the compromise.
I don't tell her that the sermon that she's giving at church that I'm disappointed about that, because she's doing God's work. I'm doing the work of the devil by hosting Mardi Gras. (Mmm) I felt disappointed by that.
When I talk about like on Studio 10, a lot of conversations come up about “It’s their religion, it’s their beliefs?” You know, we should give people the rights to have their faith and live out their faith. If her faith is homophobic, then that's their faith. But their faith isn't homophobic. (Yeah) They are homophobic. And that should apply to my mom as well, (Mmm) which I haven't quite come to terms with. Which I feel a bit hypocritical because I am saying that about other people. (Laughs) I've got a bit to do, I've got a bit of… (Yeah sure) Work to do to arrive at that place.
(Music)
Stynes: So here’s when I accidentally stroll into Narelda’s story…Forgive me for talking about myself, but there was a slightly painful overlap between my career and Narelda’s, when I appeared on the show she worked on for Network 10. I was promoting one of my cookbooks and had been kindly invited to co-host for the whole show, not just the cooking bit.
Narelda wasn’t on that day... But during that show, one of the white hosts said something racist about Indigenous people. There was a shitstorm. But the shitstorm that ensued wasn’t about the racism, but about what a troublemaking fucker I was for calling it out.
Jacobs: I watched the interaction between the two of you. And I remember watching it in its entirety. And in the end, I kind of was like. “What did Yumi say wrong?” (Mmm) “What was wrong?” There was nothing wrong about that. You needed to say that. And and in the end, you needed to be the balance. Because that's what saved Studio 10. It was the balance. And if you weren't there, I would like to think that I would have said that. But I don’t think I would have been as articulate as you saying it.
(Music fades)
Stynes: A week or so later, Narelda was a part of the panel of guests when the network flew the rich old white lady from the TV show who’d made the racist comments - out to meet with some of the remote Indigenous communities she’d been denigrating. It was part of what sometimes gets described as an “Apology Tour”.
Jacobs: So I'm sitting at the desk along with everybody else and there was one bit where she's sitting on the ground with the woman and, and saying to her, you know, “was I speaking for you?” And the woman kind of awkwardly says, “Yeah, sort of.”
(Music)
Jacobs: I just wish I, felt that I could say, “well, no one speaks for Aboriginal people except for Aboriginal people, and no one should of spoken for that lady except for her.” Yeah, but I didn't say that obviously. (Mmm) But what I did say to Kerri-Anne was, “when you, when you say that you're regretful of something, does that mean that you're sorry? For what - what was said?” And and she kind of didn't really she didn't say it. She didn't ever say sorry, but she kind of thought that she contributed to something by being there. (Laughing)
Stynes: When Narelda speaks, she carries a great responsibility. Some assume she speaks for all Aboriginal people, despite the many different nations, communities, and language groups that make up First Nations peoples across the continent.
And when the camera turns off, this sense of responsibility continues.
(Music fade out)
Jacobs: Oh, it's it's a lot. The burden is not lifted when the conversation ends. You're carrying it around all the time and you're just constantly trying to perfect that cut through. You know, what could I do that really cuts through. And then comes the bravery of. Of seeing something and knowing, just knowing that it's wrong. Or knowing that another point of view is not being offered. (Mmm) But, we need to hear that point of view, we need to hear it. And, you know, it's going to be so uncomfortable.
One thing I always do before I speak in a public way, before I speak in front of a group of people, when I'm on my way to work every day, when I'm on my way into this conversation now, I am mindful of connecting with country. On my way to Channel 10, there is a row of paper bark trees and depending on what I've - conversations that I know I'm going to be having and sometimes they might be difficult ones. Every day I pass that tree and I touch that tree and just have a moment but usually I touch it as I like brush past as I go past. (Mmm)
And it's the same kind of thing that I asked for during acknowledgements to Country. You are on somebody else's country, but you're asking the ancestors to come for guidance so that everybody in that group leaves first of all, in a safe way and they get home safely, but they're also enriched like their spirits are enriched.
Every gathering can have the most beautiful outcome, even if it's a board meeting. You do have the power of influence over people.
Stynes: A lot of the work that Narelda does is around knowing when it’s the right time to speak up on a topic, when it’s safe to, and when it’s better to just keep your mouth shut. And if you listen to this whole season of Seen, you’ll discover that picking your battles is a survival strategy for many of our guests.
For Narelda, being the only Indigenous person on a panel, or the only Indigenous person reporting the news, is not unusual - in Australian mainstream media, it’s utterly predictable. But it adds an extra layer of burden.
And when Queen Elizabeth passed in 2022, this burden was incredibly heavy.
Jacobs: That day I was at the Women and Media Conference on the Gold Coast, I had to moderate a panel. And as it was, a lot of the journos were getting plucked out of the conference to fly to London. And I had to come back to Sydney to read the Perth Bulletin that night because they wanted all the regular anchors and the main anchors to anchor the bulletins. And I had, I carefully curated my wardrobe for the conference and I had my favourite sovereign earrings on. They say ‘sovereign’ by the Koori circle by the way.
And I walked into the newsroom and it was 5:00 Sydney time. And so I was standing around watching the Sydney Bulletin and you know, these are events that have been years in the planning. There was just this sombre, solemn, incredibly solemn, like it was a huge it was a it was a big event. So I walk in wearing these sovereign earrings and I felt really good about it. (Laughing) I felt really good about wearing the sovereign earrings before I had to go and change into black. You know three days after the queen's passing. Oh, like my social media feed was way different from anybody else's, from all of the other presenters on Australian TV.
Stynes: What Narelda means is that while so much of the “mainstream” media was grieving the Queen’s death and celebrating her accomplishments, Indigenous peoples from all over the world - were trying to remind us of the vast amounts of trouble and strife the Queen and her family had brought to their shores.
If you exist in an all-white bubble, or social circles that include no one who is Indigenous, then it’s entirely possible that you believe that there was no dissent, and that the Queen was universally and wholly loved.
As an Indigenous woman in the mainstream, Narelda felt she had to say something to make other people aware that there was this whole other conversation going on…
Jacobs: Like I had to stand in solidarity with everyone. That's the day that I held like two hands on the paperbark tree. And I stood there for ages and I asked, I asked my dad, you know, for guidance and please allow me to search my words, because I could easily become public enemy number one here, because yes, there were articles Mamamia had run something, the ABC had been running something online in the written form but not had actually really said anything (Mmm) on mainstream anywhere.
Stynes: Mmm, So your heart must have been racing.
Jacobs: It was racing so much. And also because it was in amongst people's beautiful memories of the queen, you know, all of our shows, wall to wall was coverage of the queen. There was nothing else being talked about. And so I'm sitting there listening to people giving, you know, beautiful memories and and sharing amazing things. And, you know, she was, she as a woman, she was she was amazing. But I was just sitting there going, (laugh) I've got to tell the world that I think she's a coloniser. And and that that we are a colony. How I am going to do it? (Laughing)
And the way that I did do it in the end was that my dad received an MBE from the queen. (Yeah!) It was a it was a photo that was given pride of place in our home. And then when I talked about just now going back to my family, it turns out he was given the MBE in June of 1981. In September 1981, he was at the U.N. in Geneva presenting the Plan for a Marakarta for a treaty to have sovereignty of First Nations people recognised formally. It was similar to the Uluru Statement, the consultation took years and years and years. And so my dad was leading that process. And so all I could see and this is what I shared on Studio 10 that morning, on reflection now as an adult, what I see is a woman who is the sovereign, the head of state. You can't get any higher than the queen or the monarch. And that was what she represented. And then you have a man bowing down, getting this coloniser's honour. And all he wanted to do was have his sovereignty as a First Nations man recognised (Mmm) and his sovereignty of his people recognised. And he died waiting for it.
He actually loved the queen. (Mmm) And that is the complication about it. You know, he still loved a pot of tea. Til the day he died he loved the queen, in fact when he was in the hospice dying of cancer as a family, we watched the wedding of Harry and Meghan. It is messed up complicated (Yeah).
And so, I feel like I, I did find my words and it had cut through. And it was the beginning then of other people saying the things, you know, and I'm not I'm not saying, you know, I open the gates or anything like that, but I just I just did what I needed to do. (Yeah) To be able to represent. But gosh, Yumi, the burden was so heavy (Mmm) and it didn't end like, you know what it’s like when you step off, you know what it's like when you step off the set and and you have no idea what people are thinking about it or what or, you know, if anyone has even heard it. (Mmm) And I think, you know, it's in those moments that I truly feel seen. But it's the bravery that's seen more than anything.
(Musical transition)
Stynes: Neralda, you mentioned wanting to be what you saw on ICAM. All those years ago, seeing people who reflected your experience doing what you wanted to do. What's the response from people about your visibility?
Jacobs: Ahh, people think that visibility is everything, but I see visibility differently. I guess I've been the one that has been visible. But I feel like visibility isn't enough on its own as a news anchor, as a news presenter in Perth for all those years. So I was 8 on the road as a reporter and then 12 years at the desk in Perth. And so that visibility for a lot of people was everything. But my hands were tied, I couldn't say things that I wanted to say, I couldn't share my opinions. So that's where the visibility ended.
But now that I've stepped away from the news desk and sharing opinions, I'm able to back it up with, with, with substance. I love that people say lovely things about my visibility. But I can only accept it now knowing that I can represent (Mmm) and I can be the substance that backs it up. Yeah.
Stynes: It's one thing to be seen, but you have to be able to be heard as well, I guess?
Jacobs: Yeah. And now, like, to have permission to talk. So it's, it's now an opportunity to say all the things that I've never done. I never felt that I was safe to say.
Stynes: When do you feel most seen?
Jacobs: It's when I see the penny drop. And I know I can see the moment the penny drops. When I see in someone's eyes and they look at you and they think to themselves, “Oh, I underestimated her.” That's when I feel seen. It happens all the time. It happens pretty much every day.
Stynes: Wow. (Mmm) Little girls, little indigenous boys and girls when they see you. What are they seeing?
Jacobs: Oh, I just hope they see a big smile and welcoming arms. And I just hope that they see their future, you know, that they can. They can do anything. They can do anything.
(Theme music building)
Jacobs: And for little kids out living in remote parts of the country, I want them to be proud in their cultural knowledge. We are not any better than each other. And the moment we start thinking that is a moment that we failed as people, the people that are caring for a country and are healing country, they're the people that are going to heal our country, Australia.
Stynes: This has been Seen. Hosted by me, Yumi Stynes, created by Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn with Audiocraft, in collaboration with SBS.
From Audiocraft this show was produced by Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn and Cassandra Steeth, our Junior Producer is Alison Zhuang. Sound design and mix is done by Ravi Gupta, and executive producer Kate Montague.
The SBS team are Caroline Gates, Joel Supple, and Max Gosford.
Our podcast artwork is created by Evi O Studios and music is by Yeo.
(Theme music fade out, music sting)
Kearyn Cox: My name is Kearyn Cox. I'm a 25 year old Whadjuk Noongar Yamatji man, and I'm currently the WA correspondent for NITV News. And I really enjoy getting into my community and talking with my mob to tell their stories. It's something that I'm really passionate about.
To me, as a blak Aboriginal journalist in Australia narrative, Jacobs is the benchmark. And she's really a person who does represent her mob to the fullest, especially as a Noongar person. She's someone I've looked up to my entire career. I can remember watching Aunty Narelda back when I was a young boy on TV Channel 10, just seeing her on our screen shows what's possible. And it gives me a bit of inspiration to show what can be achieved in our space.
I feel like representation in Australian media for Aboriginal people is incredibly important because it's too often that we see narratives about Aboriginal people without discussing or talking to Aboriginal people. And I feel like it's incredibly important for Aboriginal people, men and women, to see people like Neralda Jacobs on the screen showing what's possible for our people and showing how incredibly bright we can be seeing her on the screen, it shows all Aboriginal people what's possible. And it really shows that we can lead the discussion and we should be a part of it more often.
(Music)
