SBS Armenian: Mr Morgenthau welcome to SBS Radio Armenian
Henry Morgenthau III: I'm very happy to be with you. I'm sitting here in
Cambridge, Massachusetts, and it seems like a long
ways from everything, but I'm always happy to,
have Armenian friends to talk to.
SBS Armenian: Mr. Morganthau, your grandfather, Henry Morganthau
Sr. Witnessed, the darkest episode of the Armenian
history. How did this affect his life and his
Henry Morgenthau III: Well, as you may know, he was the U.S. ambassador
to the Ottoman Empire, from, 1913 through 1915.
And, so, of course, he was there at the time of
the genocide. And it had a very deep and profound
effect on him at the time and the rest of his
life. And in fact, I think what he was able to do,
what he tried to do, in, coming to the aid of the
victims of the genocide and then alerting the
world to what had happened, he considered the most
important thing in his life.
SBS Armenian: Mr. Morgenthau, could you tell us about, your
Henry Morgenthau III: Excuse me, my family background?
SBS Armenian: Yes. Your family's background, the Morgenthaus?
Henry Morgenthau III: Well, yes, my grandfather was born, in Germany in,
1856, and he came to the United States as an
immigrant with his parents when he was 10 years
old. And, the family were all Jews. They were not,
persecuted for the religion but, they came to the
United States really more for business reasons. My
grandfather's father was a cigar manufacturer, and
his business was, exporting cigars to the United
States. And then at the time of the Civil War,
there was a high tariff, put on imported cigars
and other things, which ruined, his business so
that he came to the United States to try to get a
fresh start. That is, my great grandfather. My
grandfather came because with him, it was a very
SBS Armenian: And do you think Henry Morgarthau Sr's background
as a Jewish migrant, from Germany made him more
sensitive to the suffering of the Armenian
Henry Morgenthau III: I think very definitely that it did. and, that
actually, that the post of ambassador, from the US
To Armenia was considered a Jewish slot, a Jewish
position. In those days, there were only
10 American ambassadors. America was not, was just
beginning to emerge as a world power. As a matter
of fact, it emerged during the First World War
under the presidency of Woodrow Wilson. And, so
there were few ambassadors and there were, very
few Jews in government. And ironically, because
there was a large Jewish community in the Ottoman
Empire, including the Jews in Turkey, and of
course, the Ottoman Empire included Palestine, so
that it was considered a place to send a Jew. And
also ironically, that Muslims were more tolerant
of Jews, than European, Christians, so that it was
a place where Jews were sent. My grandfather
greatly resented that he was being positioned as a
Jew rather than an American. He liked to think of
himself as 100% American.
SBS Armenian: So he wasn't very pleased with his appointment as
U.S. ambassador in the Ottoman Empire.
Henry Morgenthau III: Now as a matter of fact, he turned it down at
first. He had been a, very active supporter of
Wilson for the presidency. And Wilson was an
underdog. there were 27 ballots cast at the
convention, the first time before he was nominated
for the first time and then he was chairman of
the Finance Committee, raised money for Wilson.
So, He felt that Wilson owed him something. And it
was his ambition to serve in the Cabinet. There
had only been one Jew, who had served in an
American cabinet, and that was Oscar Strauss, who
served in the Theodore Roosevelt Cabinet. And
Oscar Strauss was also three times the before and
after he was in the cabinet. He was three times
the U.S. representative to the Ottoman Empire. So
you see that that was a place where Jews were
sent. And my grandfather resented that. He felt
that he was an American and should be sent as an
American and not, and not as a Jew. And Wilson was
actually, compared particularly with Theodore
Roosevelt was not a, ah, tolerant man concerning,
minorities. He was. He was a Southerner. So he
took the position that Southerners did at that
time, on black Americans. He was also intolerant
of Asians and not very tolerant of Jews.
SBS Armenian: Do you remember him, Your grandfather?
Henry Morgenthau III: Oh, I remember him very well because you see, I'm
80 years old. I was born in 1917. And In many ways
he was more like a father to me than my own father
who was very busy with his own career. and I was
in the army in the U.S. army during World War II.
And when I came back, my family, My father had
just left Washington where he served in the
Cabinet as Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury,
and left Washington, came back to New York. So we
had no, real family home in New York City. And so
I lived with my grandfather. And those last, The
last year of his life, I lived with him. I was
with him when he ah, died at the age of 90 in
1946. And he talked a great deal about his
SBS Armenian: Documents and memos of your grandfather have all
Henry Morgenthau III: Yes, he wrote, A number of books. He wrote one
book which is particularly well known. And as a
matter of fact, has, been republished, by the
Armenian community, which is called Ambassador
Morgenthau's Story. and that focused,
particularly. There's one section in there which
he called the Murder of a Nation. At that time,
the term genocide, had not been invented. and the
Murder of a Nation, of course, referred to the
massacres which he witnessed. Then he wrote
another. He wrote an autobiography called All in a
Lifetime. And then after the First World War, he
was sent by the League of Nations to Greece to
head up a commission. which was resettling the
Greeks who had been expelled from Turkey. And so
he wrote a book on that experience which was
called, I Was Sent to Athens. And then he wrote a
short book, really privately printed for the
family. Which was called My Trip around the World.
But those other three books were really his main.
His, Three important books. And Ambassador
Morgenthau's Story is, Of course, the one that, Is
of special interest and often quoted by Armenians
and which has been attacked by, Turks and Turkish
sympathizers. I guess you know about professor,
Lowry's, book called the Story Behind Ambassador
Morgenthau's Story, which is an attempt to,
repudiate and belittle what he said. and that, has
stirred a lot of outrage in this country.
SBS Armenian: Henry Morgenthau Sr. was involved, also in the
Near East Relief. Could you give us details about,
Henry Morgenthau III: Work? Yes, of course. When he was, the US
Ambassador. The United States had really. But as I
say, they weren't a world power. So they didn't
have the kind of interest in power and influence
that, the British and the French and the Germans
did. The only US interest was really the,
missionary. schools and colleges and hospitals,
which had been, built and were operated by
Americans. And, One of the most important was in
what is now Lebanon. Of course, you told me that
you came from. You were born in Lebanon. Lebanon
didn't exist at that time. It was a creation of
the, It was created after World War I. It was part
of Syria. And, So the American university was
called something like Syrian Presbyterian College
or something like that. And, it was financed and
also operated by the Dodge family. Two of the
dodgers were later head of American University.
And so the Dodge family were very interested in
that part of the world. And very interested, in
Armenians. And Cleveland Dodge was a classmate of
Woodrow Wilson at Princeton. And so he was the
major major donor to Wilson's campaigns. And my
grandfather had got to know him when he was
raising money for Wilson. And Then when he was in
Turkey, the State Department was really not
interested, in. They had very little interest in
what was happening, what the Turks were doing.
they were a neutral power and they actually
permitted, even encouraged my grandfather to turn
this information over to private sources. And with
my grandfather's urging, Cleveland Dodge set up
the Near East. What became the Near East Relief,
in his own office and with his own money. and then
later when my grandfather came back to the United
States, he served, on the board. I have a picture
which actually I published in my book. I did a
family. I published a family history which is
called Mostly Morgenthaus, which was about several
generations of Morgenthaus. And so that my
grandfather was very active in the work that, the
Near East Relief did, both in terms of raising
money and actual relief work and in publicizing to
the world what had happened.
SBS Armenian: Did your father, Henry Morganthau Jr. follow the
steps of his father? I think he helped, Jews
during and after the Holocaust.
Henry Morgenthau III: Yes. He was very much influenced by his father. He
was, my grandfather's only son and therefore his
favorite. He had. My father had three sisters who
were very capable women and were I think, quite
frustrated by the ah, treatment that they
received. And in these days, it's something that,
American women certainly wouldn't put up with.
But, He was. My father was greatly influenced
by his father. And in some ways that he was an
extension of my grandfather's ambitions and ego. I
mean, the job that he received under Roosevelt as
Secretary of the Treasury was what my grandfather
really would have liked for himself. But I think.
And my father was with. Was in Turkey, a good deal
of the time when my grandfather was there. He was
there at the matter of fact, a few days before the
British pulled out of the Dardanelles, my father
was visiting, the front line from the Turkish and
German side to observe what was going on. So that
I think that when Hitler came along and the
Holocaust, was underway, that my father was
particularly sensitive, to the fact that history
was repeating itself. And as you know, of course
the Armenian massacre was the first genocide of
the 20th century. And that the fact that it was
not, ever recognized by the Turks was an influence
on Hitler. Who was reputed to have said. Who ever
remembers the Armenians when he was proceeding To
go ahead with the genocide of the Jews of Germany
SBS Armenian: Mr. Morgenthau you are regularly participating at
conferences and or lectures about the Armenian
genocide. When did you get involved?
Henry Morgenthau III: Well as my grandfather's namesake. I mean I'm
actually Henry Morgenthau Third that I began to be
called on particularly on April 24th the
anniversary of the 1915 massacre, to read from my
grandfather's book from Ambassador Morgenthau
story. and I became more and more interested in.
more and more involved. So that I like to think of
myself as an Honorary Armenian. And so that But
really by inheritance I've become very interested
and perhaps even a bit knowledgeable and so that I
very often get called on to participate in
discussions. Just recently I was at Drew
University in New Jersey. The ex governor of New
Jersey is now president of Drew. And he is also as
I am an alumnus of Princeton and many of us who
are associated with Princeton have. Are very
shocked and upset that Heath Lowry was
appointed the Ataturk professor of Turkish Studies
at Princeton with money from the Turkish
government. And That He is very much an instrument
of the Turkish government and really has very
little reputation as a scholar. In fact he hasn't
written anything else, published anything else. He
claims to have published one other book, but
nobody has found it. The only thing he's published
is this little book or you might even call it a
pamphlet called the Story Behind Ambassador
Morgenthau's Story. And of course why unlike the.
The Germans have really The present day German
have made a real attempt to come to terms with
what took place in Germany. And The generation
that's alive now does not feel and shouldn't feel
responsible what happened that they recognize it
as part of their history. They're concerned, they
are saddened. They have paid retribution. Germany
has been one of Israel's best friends and has done
from the beginning of the state of Israel did
business with Germany, individuals and government
did business with Israel. But the Turks on the
other hand for reasons that are difficult to
understand have not just refused to admit what
happened. That's difficult to understand. and a
lot of people in this country and particularly
Jews because of their sensitivity to the Holocaust
have become very much concerned about this.
SBS Armenian: Mr. Morganthau, thank you for the interview. And I
hope, we'll get in touch again.
Henry Morgenthau III: All right. I hope. I enjoy talking to you, and I
would be interested in any reaction or any
questions that people in your audience have to,
what we've discussed. And if I can give any
further answers or elucidate any more extensively,
be my pleasure to be on with you at any time. It's
been nice meeting you, over the long distance
telephone. Thank you very much.
