I've got short, brown, or dark brown hair. Slightly Asian looking, freckles.. five foot two, and gay. I tick all the boxes, now!Pauline Menczer
Hosted by Yumi Stynes, SEEN is a podcast series about the trailblazers who persist and succeed without positive role models in mainstream culture.
In this season you'll meet trailblazers like pro surfer Pauline Menczer, renowned artist Lindy Lee, community chef Duang Tengritrat, Tiwi Island Sistagirl Crystal Love Johnson, and more. Hear how these women defy convention as they grow older.
Follow SEEN on the SBS Audio website or app, Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Credits:
Host: Yumi Stynes
Producers: Laura Brierley Newton, Olivia O'Flynn
Sound Design and Mix: Ravi Gupta
Executive Producer: Kate Montague and Lorna Clarkson
Theme Music: Yeo
Art: Evi O Studios
SBS Team: Joel Supple, Max Gosford and special thanks to Caroline Gates
Original concept by: Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn
Transcript
Pauline MENCZER: I've got short hair, dark browny black hair, slightly Asian looking, freckles, five foot two and gay. So yeah, all those things went against me at that time,
Yumi STYNES (Voiceover): Imagine being a women’s world champion surfer… but going completely unnoticed and ignored…because you didn’t look the part.
When Pauline Menzcer was killing it in the surf, she was not killing it in endorsement deals, prize money, or fame.
MENCZER: There'd be other girls coming along that had blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, the look that they wanted, and all of a sudden they're getting all the contracts, and I kept missing out.
I just felt like I was invisible.
You hear women talk about ageing and becoming more invisible the older they get. For Pauline - she STARTED out as invisible.
(Theme music)
STYNES (Voiceover): In this new season of SEEN, we decided: You know what? We only want to talk to inspiring, powerful older women. Women who have lived full lives, done amazing things, AND found fresh purpose as they age. Because if we’re lucky, they’re what we’re going to become!
I'm Yumi Stynes and I’m happy to use this podcast to announce that I'm no longer in denial that old age will happen to me!
It’s easy to feel doom about growing old when so much of what we hear - is that it’s miserable and it sucks and you lose both relevance and purpose - and as my elderly aunt Tasma once said, “you get so old that you can’t chew any more! All your food has to be soft, because your teeth are all bendy!”
So here I am, and here you are - and it’s coming for all of us, so let’s use this podcast to get guidance from these women: What does it mean to feel seen in older age? How do you stay cool? What *is* the secret sauce to a fulfilling life? What do we have to look forward to?
(Theme music fade out)
We start by acknowledging the Traditional Owners of the land on which we record... the Cammeraygal people and Gadigal people, and their Elders past and present.
(Music with a beat and sound of men playing sports)
When I was growing up, the sporting heroes we saw on TV were all men. No matter what the sport. And so, for many young girls, it was hard to imagine what a successful career in sport would look like - because there was no such thing…
(Surf style music and sound of waves and kids playing at the beach)
Growing up in Sydney's beachside suburb Bronte in the 1980s, Pauline was always in the water. For a working class kid, it was the perfect free entertainment. Her mum would take Pauline and her 3 siblings down to the beach most days. They'd even eat dinner there and would only head home when it was time for bed.
But it wasn't until she got her hands on her brother's old surfboard that she got to try surfing
STYNES: Tell me about the first time you picked up a surfboard.
MENCZER: The first time I picked up a board it was at Bronte Beach and my older brother had a cool light surfboard so it's made out of foam I was really jealous. This like, you know, I want one, but because we're a poor family, we had to share everything. And so I was stoked when he snapped that in half and I ended up starting on half a surfboard.
STYNES: Wow. How old were you?
MENCZER: Um, around 14?
STYNES: Okay. And what was it like to surf on half a surfboard?
MENCZER: Really hard. it was crazy though As soon as I got to my feet, like I got to my feet actually quite quick, surprisingly on it, just the feeling of the ocean pulling you along a wave was just so incredible, and I was just hooked straight away.
STYNES: What does that feel like to be on a wave?
MENCZER: Um, I guess for someone who hasn't surfed, it's a little bit like when you're learning to drive a car, and the first time you put the accelerator down, there's that wild feeling of this power. But it's even more wild because you can't really see it. And all of a sudden you've got this big push of the ocean pushing your board.
So it's quite incredible. And, just trying to learn how the ocean works and the currents and the swells. So not only is surfing hard to master, you're trying to master, you know, this unpredictable ocean.
STYNES: Did you have some sort of innate ability to surf?
MENCZER: I think so because it wasn't, it was probably only a year later that I already started going in some amateur events. I went in like there was a little kids cool light contest at Bondi and I ended up getting second in that within the first year. So, um, I think I was a real natural. But I do think it helped being an ocean person and like I'd body surfed waves when I was younger so I understood what waves were the good ones to catch.
STYNES: The next beach along from her local beach was the iconic Bondi Beach - famous for being where the best waves are. Every day after school she'd skate down the hill and jump in as fast as she could.
MENCZER: Bondi was really, it was a melting pot of everybody. You had a lot of homelessness. it was very poor. Like now, I just can't believe it's the same place. And so I remember, you know, even when I'd ride my skateboard down the beach, I'm like this little 14, 15 year old girl, and I looked like I was 10 when I was that age. And you'd get whistled at, like, you know, these kind of whistles. And you think about that now, imagine people doing that to a kid now. But that's what happened on the way down, and then you just like quickly skateboard past, or um, um, going past, like there was a lady that used to sing the opera right down the middle of Bondi Road, and she'd be singing in the middle of the street, and then you get a little bit further down, and there's a guy licking pizzas out of the garbage bin.
So it's really crazy. And then when you got onto the beach, you had to do a good metre jump, so you didn't jump on any needles,
STYNES: Wow.
MENCZER: of drug addicts hanging down the beach, and they all seemed to do it right near the wall. So it was like a known thing. Don't, don't jump near the wall.
STYNES: So what was it like to be a female surfer back then?
MENCZER: Um, it was really tough when I first started because there wasn't a lot of women in the water. And the guys didn't really want girls out there, so I got told to go in many times. and anytime they would say like, go in, I'm like, get stuffed, I'm not going in, I love it out here.
STYNES: And so, can you take us there? Like, what's it like you're on your board and who's saying that to you? Is it younger guys? Is it the old grizzle seadogs?
MENCZER: So, the southern end of Bondi, which I didn't realise until later, was like where the big wigs of Bondi went. And there was a pecking order so that, you know, the guys that were the better surfers would always paddle out and get the best position and not really let you have waves and I'd just wait for them to fall off and just be on the inside to catch whatever they fell off on. Or sometimes you'd be lucky and get in the right order where you'd get a chance to get a good wave. But, if I got on the inside and someone thought that they were more hierarchy than me, then they would drop in on you.
And so that's basically, you're riding a wave and they just, you know, take off in front of you and say, it's my wave and you can't have it. So sometimes I'd be feisty and yell at them. Other times I'd just back off depending on who it was.
STYNES (Voiceover): The gatekeeping of girls from participating was - and is - baked into the very culture of surfing. And yet - girls persisted and persist - in the fight to be included.
At a surf competition in Bondi, Pauline saw that there was a women’s division.
MENCZER: I was watching how the girls surfed and I thought, Wow, I think I surf pretty close to how they are.that's what gave me the drive to see these other girls realise that I could do this. I could be at the top. And so that's where my love to want to compete came from.
(Music and sound of loudspeaker at a surf competition and waves)
STYNES: Can you talk us through the first time you won a competition?
MENCZER: Oh, the first one I won was in Biarritz, and it was the first year on tour. And I remember it was absolutely tiny waves, but because I was like half the size of the other girls basically, I was flying along these waves and the girls were struggling to, you know, get on them. And then I ended up winning and I was so stoked.
And it wasn't until I looked at the check and it was, so it was four thousand US dollars. And then I saw the guys check that I actually realised after being on tour for that year and then winning. Hang on a minute, we get so much, way less money than the guys. What's the go with that?
STYNES: What was the guy's amount?
MENCZER: Probably eight or ten thousand. double, double if not more than double. And so it wasn't until starting to compete I realised these massive differences in male and female sport.
STYNES (Voiceover): Prize money is one thing; getting sponsorship deals is as important for pro surfers. Without sponsorship money and / or rich parents it's near impossible to travel around the world on competition tours and pay for accommodation.
Pauline struggled to get anyone to sponsor her. And it had nothing to do with her surfing ability.
MENCZER: I just felt like I was invisible. And then there'd be other girls coming along that had blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, the look that they wanted, and all of a sudden they're getting all the contracts, and I kept missing out.
And then, same with magazines. all these different people getting magazines and even, and I never got a magazine ever. Even still today, I have not been on the cover of a surfing magazine. So I think I'm probably one of the only world champions to never to get on a magazine.
STYNES: And tell me how that makes you self reflect, like, when you see these other people sort of streaking ahead of you. Because of how they look.
MENCZER: I was so mad because they always wanted you to have a look. It was never about your surfing.
STYNES: For people who are listening, because this is just in your ears, can you describe what you look like? Ha ha ha
MENCZER: I've got short hair. dark brownie black hair, slightly Asian looking, freckles, five foot two and gay. So yeah, I tick all the boxes now
STYNES (Voiceover): For years, Pauline was careful to hide the fact that she was gay from all but a few close friends.
In fact, it took a long time to even figure out she was gay. Pauline’s friendship with Jodie Cooper - another champion surfer, helped the puzzle pieces land in place.
MENCZER: Jodie reckoned she knew before I did. And I had this boyfriend and just didn't want to be with him. I was always scared to go to bed with this guy.
And it wasn't until after being in bed with him I realised, Oh, I think I want to be with a girl. And then I went, Oh, where did this come from? It was really that, um, simple.
And I was travelling with Jodie and met someone that actually had the hots for Jodie and Jodie's like, Pauline, I've got a girlfriend.
Can you make sure she doesn't come near me? And then me and her ended up hooking up and she was my first love. I was with her for five years. And while I travelled with her on tour for five years, she was my coach, not my lover. And so.
Yeah, and the reason, the reason she was my coach was because Jodie was out the whole time I travelled with her and I heard so many horrible things and saw how horrible people treated her and how, um, judges, yeah, she was openly gay and then the judges, like if it was a close call the gay girls would absolutely never get through.
STYNES (Voiceover): Entrenched homophobia disadvantaged queer surfers. Jodie was cute and blonde and attractive - the look that big companies wanted in a female surfer, but Pauline saw Jodie get dropped by many of her sponsors once she came out as gay.
Pauline knew there was no way she could share that part of herself publicly. As you can imagine, hiding her sexuality added to the many stresses for Pauline.
And because she was short, freckly and mixed race and didn’t look like she should be on Home and Away, she didn’t have sponsors anyway.
Meaning she had to scrape by, raising funds however she could to get to surfing comps in different countries.
(Music)
But Pauline had been raised to be resourceful…
MENCZER: When I was really young, I've got two sets of twins in our family, and I'd get one twin and me on one side of the road, my older brother, and the other twins on the other side of the road and we'd scour the street clean up to get whatever we could for free. And then we'd sell that in garage sales. We'd also go to the beach and collect cans and sell that as well. So, um, then when I got on tour, I started doing the same kind of thing. I would buy, you know, a whole ton of Levi jeans in America and sell them in France.
One time I bought a gigantic bike. It's one of those really, you got to stretch your legs right out in front of you. It's a real massive cruiser and I paid something like 300 for it in America and sold it for 2,000 in France. And so I just kept doing stuff like that to survive. And then I made friends at each event and were able to stay with them. So basically those friends that I made were massive help in surviving on tour that many years.
My mum always taught me there's a positive in every negative. And she would say, always look for the positive. And so, you know, not getting sponsored, righto, I'll do it myself. And so the positive thing was you know, you just learn to be a fighter.
STYNES (Voiceover): Pauline's fighting spirit also came from some tough health issues that she'd been dealing with from a young age.
MENCZER: When I was 14 I started getting really sore elbows and knees and then couldn't turn my neck and so my mum ended up taking me to hospital and they found out that I had junior rheumatoid arthritis. And then for probably a couple of years, I was used basically as a guinea pig at the hospital and they were giving me aspirin and dispirin and all this kind of stuff.
STYNES (Voiceover): The medicine didn't work for Pauline, so she decided to stop taking it and focused on eating well and staying healthy.
This helped a lot at first, but as it is with chronic illness, she could never quite predict how her body would go.
MENCZER: And then through the years and through my career, you know, I'd have five months of just horrible and then two months okay, and then three months bad and five months great.
So, like for instance, if I was travelling and I had won an event, and everything's going smooth, I'd be great. But another time if I hadn't won any money, and I'd be stressing about how am I going to get a car or a hotel or whatever, it would get a lot worse.
And so they do say that with arthritis it can be triggered emotionally as well as, you know, how you eat. So, um, And yeah, you know, later on a rheumatologist said to me it's quite rare to have arthritis come and go. But I think it's because I really did try and be very healthy
STYNES (Voiceover): Despite the arthritis flare ups, Pauline continued competing.
But in 1993, preparing to travel to the World Title championship in Hawaii, she was dealing with terrible pain.
MENCZER: I was walking so crooked that my hip was basically turning all the way around forward and back, like, walking very crooked.
My elbows didn't straighten, my neck couldn't turn, and my wrist didn't bend.
STYNES (Voiceover): Pauline was just 23 years old and supposed to be in her prime. She was determined to get to Hawaii.
MENCZER: And my coach at the time, he didn't even think I was going to go to Hawaii because he could see how bad I was. Because I wasn't surfing. I was in too much pain. And then when I got to Hawaii, I just kept swimming and just, you know, tying my leg rope onto the side of the pool and I'd just keep swimming because I thought if I get hurt now, I was basically like a hundred year old lady going in 10 foot surf, which is just too dangerous.
So I was too scared to free surf. So I just kept staying fit by doing granny exercises in the pool and, and paddling.
STYNES (Voiceover): Pauline even went to a doctor to get steroid injections to try and help with the pain, but nothing seemed to work.
So she went to see a local healer that another surfer had recommended.
MENCZER: And then he started like touching my leg and my shoulder, then holding them and kind of putting it in sync and then doing the same on my ankle and my knee. And I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, Oh, just putting your body in time. Like your body clocks out. And I just sort of rolled my eyes thinking, Oh my God, I've flown all the way to Kauai for this. It's, you know, what do you call witchcraft or something? And I was thinking, this is a load of crap. Anyway, I was in there for about an hour. And after I left, I felt like I was at least 25 per cent better.
STYNES: Wow.
(Music and sound of waves crashing)
STYNES (Voiceover): On the day of the comp, the waves were rolling in - and they were huge.
Pauline was still struggling to move her body properly.
If you look at footage from the competition, you can see her sitting on the beach and her face is full of pain.
But she refused to give up. So she borrowed a local girls surfboard - a much sturdier board than what she usually used.
MENCZER:I hadn't used a board that big. It was a 7'8, I think it was. And I was hobbling down to the water's edge and then paddling out and I was so nervous and so scared because of the way my body was and because waves were really big and then as soon as the hooter went and my heat started I just surfed like there was nothing wrong with me.
STYNES (Voiceover): And in that moment... everything fell into place.
MENCZER: So it's just amazing what adrenaline can do and ever since then I start, I realised when they talk about you know parents lifting cars or whatever realise just how amazing it is. adrenaline.
When I came in to the beach, Jodie Cooper was the first person I saw, and she gives me a little head flick, like, well done, well done champ, and then, a lot of people were saying congratulations. And then a lot of the photographers, and it was just one after another. And it wasn't until I actually heard it on the microphone, them announce it, I really did feel like the most unbelievable sense of relief
I'm like, Oh my God, I did it. I finally did it.
STYNES (Voiceover): Pauline had won the World Title! It was an incredible moment...
MENCZER: I walked up to the contest area and someone put a lei of flowers on me. And so to this day, I never forget the smell of those flowers
The world title didn't really sink in. It was more that I felt like the bag on my back had fallen off. And so, yeah, just absolute relief. And then it wasn't till the presentation, you know, the banquet, that I really felt it.
STYNES (Voiceover): But the award ceremony brought some stark realities back into focus.
MENCZER: The guys all won prizes at the end of the year. I thought that we're going to win prize money for winning the world title. And there was no prize money for being a world champion. So there's prize money at each event, but there was no actual prize for becoming a world champion.
STYNES: Man.
MENCZER: So yeah, I was pretty, pretty devo because I thought, oh, that if I win that, that'll pay for next year's, no worries.
STYNES: Yeah.
MENCZER: The, the cost of the tour. And then when that didn't happen, I was like, wow, I was pretty shocked.
(Music)
STYNES (Voiceover): Looks it’s one thing to experience inequality first-hand … It’s a whole other thing to be a World Champion - and still be broke. And sick.
I asked Pauline if she got tired of the hustle.
STYNES (Voiceover): Oh and I'll be honest, I would still have been on the tour, I would have been like Kelly Slater, I think. I would have just kept going and going and going, but financially, and then my health, because the financial part of it was getting to me, my health started to suffer, and then my arthritis got really bad, so I had to stop.
But, you know, when I stopped, I just totally didn't want to stop. I wanted to just keep going and going and
STYNES: Wow. Okay. That's tough then.
MENCZER: So I basically completely blocked it out of my life for quite a few years.
STYNES (Voiceover): Retired from professional competitions and back in Australia, Pauline moved to the north coast and became a school bus driver. With her positive attitude she embraced this new chapter and found herself amongst a new generation of surf fans.
MENCZER: I loved it. Like, I had some kids that surfed, and they'd always come and sit next to me and be like, what's a surf like? And, about, what do you think about this board? And what about that board? And, I'm right into recycling things as well. And like we're driving the bus along and there might be something thrown out and go to the kids, Oh, quick, grab that board or that skateboard and hide it behind the bush.
And I'll come back and get it later. And you can have the skateboard and I'll have the surfboard.
And so things like that, I liked, you know, showing the kids the tour and, and teaching them, you know, recycling the planet. And yes, I felt like a lot of people said to me, Oh, you're only a bus driver. And I'm like, yeah, but you can make change in people's lives being only a bus driver.
STYNES (Voiceover): Unfortunately Pauline's health challenges continued.
MENCZER: I got a very rare illness and it's called Pymphigus vulgaris and it's vulgar because basically your whole body ends up full of sores and it's like being, it's like being burnt alive in a fire. It's absolutely horrific.
And so the medicine for that was really high dose steroids. And then I ended up finding another thing that worked that basically killed off half my immune system. And so because it killed off half my immune system, I was scared to keep being a bus driver. And then I changed from that now to being a carer.
I care for a guy that used to be a surfer and he's got MS and he's just the most beautiful guy. And he's just got the most positive attitude and it's a really fulfilling job,
STYNES (Voiceover): Throughout all of this, Pauline had nothing to do with the surfing community.
Until 2018, when a few things started to change.
STYNES: How were you told that you're going to be entered into the Hall of Fame?
MENCZER: It was actually Lane Beachley that called me up to tell me.
STYNES (Voiceover): Layne Beachly is without doubt Australia's best-known female surfer.
MENCZER: And she said, I know it's way late, and you should have been recognised a long time ago, but you're getting put into the Hall of Fame this year. And I was like, okay. And I was so, so happy, like, I was very, very teary, I'm like, finally I'm getting recognised and, yeah, it was an amazing night.
STYNES: Tell me more.
MENCZER: I'm getting a bit teary,
STYNES: No, I'm getting a bit teary too.
MENCZER: Um, whew, let's take a second, ooh, ooh, give me a minute.
STYNES: Take your time.
MENCZER: Yeah, it was, it was really cool because, not only was I recognized, I was in front of like all the past champions. So they had like the last 30 years of, um, winners of getting inducted into the hall of fame. So you can imagine what that list of people's like. And so to be handed that trophy in front of them was like amazing.
Like, yeah, really, really good. And, um, it was probably the first time I really got to share my story of the struggles. The recognition that came from that was, yeah, I feel like I've won the world title now, but many, many years later,
I won the world title in 1993. And that's how long it took to get recognised.
STYNES: Oh my God. Okay.
(Music)
STYNES: Do you feel more seen now at age 54 than you did when you were winning world championships?
MENCZER: Absolutely. Like, I totally still feel like, even currently right now, I still feel like I've just won the world title.
STYNES: So good.
STYNES (Voiceover): Pauline is inspiring other female surfers - and many of them are starting to speak up about the unequal prize money in competitions.
Responding to that pressure, in 2019 the World Surfing League announced that it would start offering equal prize money for men and women. Change has been slower coming at a local club competition level, but the surfing world is finally starting to change.
STYNES: What's it been like watching younger surfers come up the ranks?
MENCZER: I can't help but like, just smile, the biggest smile. Every time I see these girls doing these amazing manoeuvres that the guys said the women never would, they're never going to surf as good as the guys. And now they are, I just smile every time I see them do like, you know, when they're doing these aerial 360s, I never thought that they'll catch up, but I'm like, now that they're getting, You know, the same thing, like same sponsors, they're getting the same amount of boards.
They're getting sent on those surf trips where they're surfing amazing waves, getting taught about nutrition, you know, technique, all that input that the guys had, the girls have got now. And it's showing like, as soon as they changed the money to equal prize money, women's surfing at a younger level just started going through the roof.
(Music)
You know, these dads are taking their girls on tour. you know, one of them used to be a pro surfer and he's bringing his daughter on tour now and I just love seeing that because the men were so anti girl surfers and to see a father with his daughter taking him to these events and even when the Girls Can't Surf movie was on, there were so many dads there with their daughters, like you can't help but be proud and just go, finally, oh my god, finally.
STYNES (Voiceover): In 2020 Pauline featured in the documentary film Girls Can't Surf, which showed the world these incredible female surfers - Pauline among them - from the 80s and 90s and how hard they had to fight to be allowed to compete.
It also showed audiences how the work done by these women has led the surfing world to become - at least slightly - better for female surfers now.
The creators of the film, inspired by Pauline, have even started the process of applying to have a statue of Pauline erected at Bondi Beach.
MENCZER: Christopher Neleus and Michaela they did the movie Girls Can't Surf, and Christopher and her were saying like, Pauline hasn't even been recognised at Bondi. Like, she's the only world champion, male or female, to come out of Bondi Beach.
They started talking together and then Christopher had this idea of, like, she well and truly deserves a statue.
And just to show you how important that is, they did a mural of me at Bondi a year ago and there was this little girl that walked past and right when they finished writing it, she read it and she said, 1993 World Champion.
And then she looked at the picture and she looked at her mum and she said, that's what I want to be.
STYNES: Oh.
MENCZER: So to this day, I'm still in contact with her and she's still surfing. And so, you know, if you can't see it, you can't be it. And so for me, I really realised just how important it is to share your story.
and I was thinking about looking at this statue, it made me think that when I was a little girl riding the skateboard down the hill, and I'd run past right where they're going to put it, it made me think that when I was a kid, if I would have had that to look up to.
How amazing would that have been for that, my generation to go, wow, like there's a world champion come from here. especially considering, I think it's, I don't know the exact percentage, but it's something like 96 percent of statues are men,
STYNES: Oh yeah.
MENCZER: More of animals.
And then there's a few of women and most of them are royalty. So it's well and truly time that women get some statues around Australia. to inspire the next generation of women and young girls.
(Music)
STYNES (Voiceover): This same idea - of seeing someone who looks like you, doing cool shit like surfing - inspiring you to think it’s a possibility for you… also applies to older women.
MENCZER: So now with a lot of women who do surfing you'll find that there's a lot of groups and the reason they're going out surfing in groups is because the guys can be sometimes still very macho in the water and the women feel quite threatened.
So now they're starting surf groups where they're all surf together and then once they've made friends, a lot of those women are surfing together later on.
STYNES: Great
Pauline: And so even now you say, what am I doing as an older person, I'm still part of a surf club.
MENCZER: I'm back in the surfing scene now. Like, I feel part of it. I've been getting included more.
Still surfing, still love it, still on a, only 25 litre surfboard and I'm very proud about that.
(Theme music)
Life's kind of never ending. It doesn't change when you get over 50. It's just the same.
STYNES (Voiceover): Recognition - at any age - is so meaningful. We don’t necessarily crave awards and praise so much as we crave witnesses. Someone to see us, to witness our work and our courage and the thing that we tried so hard to achieve, and to say, “Hey, I saw that. That was cool.” To maybe even say, “You’re giving me something to aim for.”
Pauline Mercer’s story helps us to understand that being a world-champion may not lead us to everlasting riches and the ecstacy of ticker-tape-parade glory. But it can, in small ways, lead a little girl to say, “You’re what I want to be.”
From bus driver to winner’s podium to having your statue erected near where you used to surf as a little kid - all of these moments exist within the same lifetime. It’s pretty wild.
This has been SEEN, hosted by me, Yumi Stynes, and produced by Audiocraft in collaboration with SBS.
From Audiocraft, Season 3 of SEEN was produced by Laura Brierley Newton and Olivia O'Flynn.
Sound design and mix is done by Ravi Gupta and Executive Producer is Lorna Clarkson and Kate Montague.
Tape sync by Rasela Torise.
The SBS team are Joel Supple and Max Gosford with special thanks to Caroline Gates.
Our podcast artwork is created by Evi-O Studios.
And music is by Yeo.
SEEN’s original concept was by Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn.
