Ngaire Pakai
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Ngaire Pakai
Welcome to Speak My Language Disability. Listen as we share stories of first nations people who are engaging in their passions while living with a disability. Throughout this series you'll hear inspiring stories from leaders and advocates within the community who have successfully pursued their
dreams in their chosen fields. I'm, Ngaire Pakai and in this episode I chat with Dr. Alexander Smith, a Gundagarra man and a footy player with physical disability rugby league. Alex plays in both club and representative levels. In 2024, he was the captain of the country New South Wales team and
currently plays for Australia in the Australian World cup development squad for next year's World Cup. Football for Alexander is a way to connect and create community After sustaining a traumatic brain injury he shares with us today his story navigating sport and life.
Ngaire Pakai
Thanks for jumping on. Thanks for coming here,
Dr Alexander Smith
Yaama Thanks for having me
Ngaire Pakai
To just jump into it. Who are you? Where are you from? Who's your mob?
Dr. Alexander Smith
I'm Alex Gundagarra, man. I, live, play and work on Jerrinja and Wodi Wodi Country which is on the South Coast of NSW I live with autism and medical disabilities, as well as a traumatic brain injury following a motorbike accident. In my spare time, I'm in the water or I'm m playing Lego or, playing
footy. And, a big thanks to my speech therapist, Andrea Wilson, and my psychologist, Katherine Wilson, because they've helped to prepare me for today.
Ngaire Pakai
One thing I put in here. You're a doctor, You're a doctor. Where'd that come about? What is that?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Yeah, it was a PhD in educational psychology. And, it was from my brain injury actually, and the pain that I was going through with rehab. I was having difficulty understanding what the doctors, and medical staff were trying to tell me about how to manage my pain. And I thought, well, there must be
other people as well that struggle when they're in pain to understand information from their doctors. So I did a PhD in that and, had a look at different strategies to use to help people with pain, understand information about, how to manage things.
Ngaire Pakai
What is physical disability? Rugby league?
Dr. Alexander Smith
well, it's a modified version of rugby league. It was founded in 2010 by George Tonna who's a Paralympian. And since then it's been developed, in consultation with players and, parents of players with disability. So the sport very much reflects, the experiences of those that live with disability and
understand, what it's like. It's, inclusive of many different types of disability. So that includes things like brain injury, cerebral palsy, and limb amputation. And it gives players the opportunity to play in a running version of disability football as opposed to playing one in a wheelchair.
Domestically, the sport's played in New South Wales and Queensland, and it's affiliated with New South Wales rugby league and the NRL and it's played internationally in New Zealand, England and Wales. I think it's quite remarkable where the sport has come in the last 15 years, through George and
others, because when it first started out, it was played on community fields in Western Sydney, and it's now being played as curtain raisers to NRL games in stadiums. It's now played in four countries. We have test matches, and we've got the world cup as well. The sport itself brings a lot of joy
and a lot of opportunities for people that love rugby league but have a disability. It, gives them a lot of opportunities to play.
Ngaire Pakai
And how did you get first involved in the physical disability rugby league?
Dr. Alexander Smith
There was a big delay, actually, between when I first heard about the sport and then when I got to play my first game. I was watching the Sunday footy show, and I was doing rehab following surgery, and Adam Hills was on, and he was discussing a disability footy game. played for Warrington against
the Rabbitohs And I was like, what? There's disability footy and you're not in a wheelchair? Like, how did I not know about this? I had lots of complications and surgeries and rehabs. And so I wasn't actually fit enough to get to a training session until January 2020. And as soon as you hear 2020,
you know, oh, that's right. That's the year of COVID and lockdowns. So there was no footy that season. And then in 2021, I had a fracture and I couldn't play. And more rehab. And then at a training session during 2022, I tore my hamstring. Oh, wraps. It was just one thing after another after
another. So mid-2020, I finally got to put on the mighty Rabbitohs jersey and I got to play alongside George. And, I also got to, meet Adam Hills. And I was able to thank him in person because it was that interview back in 2018 that I actually found out about the footy. And then in mid-2022, here I
am playing a Game with him in the Rabbitoh's jersey. Full circle, Full circle.
Ngaire Pakai
With rugby, we all know it's a rough sport, it's a rough go. How do they modify the disability league for footy?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Oh, yeah, it's still a tough sport. But, yeah, we have modified rules and uniforms and playing conditions that accommodate people with different disabilities so we can ensure it's a safe sport to play. so I'll give you an example. we have a rule that if you knock on or drop the ball, that's counted
as a tackle. You just get to play the ball rather than having a scrum or turning over possession. This is important because we have players that have cerebral palsy, so catching or handling the ball might be difficult for those players. So the rules accommodate them so that they're not being
disadvantaged, they can still play. And we also have different types of tackles on the field. This is shown through the uniform. So we have players that wear black shorts and they're full contact tackle, they can be taken to the ground. And then if your disability means that your medical team say,
look, it's too dangerous for you to be involved in full contact, well, then you can wear red shorts and you get to play by touch rules. For me, I'm a red shorts player, so I play by the touch rules. So it means I still get to play rugby league in a safe environment where I'm not going to be injured
and I'm still allowed to participate. And then we also have, classification of players. So this makes sure that we have equity of disability amongst the competing teams. And we have different coloured socks that show that and they're graded in terms of disability. And then you can only have so many
players of same of those socks on the field at once to make sure you've got that equity across the teams when you're competing. I just think it's really smart how the sport has been set up to modify the game so that various types of disability can play on the field all at once in a really safe
environment. but it doesn't dilute at all how tough these guys are and the competition of the game on the field.
Ngaire Pakai
With keeping up with sport. What's the, what do you find are like the benefits of getting in there and having a go?
Dr. Alexander Smith
That's a really good question. well, disability footy is a team sport and team based sports are not always offered or modified for people with disability. What that means is that you can miss out on the associated physical and mental health benefits with disability footy. So many different types of
disability are, ah, welcomed and included. So the sport gives you the opportunity to be active, develop your skills, improve your health and well being. It's a place where you belong and you have friends and it's fun. I guess in a lot of ways the benefit of the sport is you're part of this really
big footy family. We have different life experiences with our players that are aged from 12 to 72 years old. We have players with different disabilities like brain injury, cerebral palsy, vision and hearing limitations. And we also come from different places, including like rural, regional and metro
areas. But the thing is we're all united and we're united in our understanding of what living day to day with disability means. And we're also united by our love and passion for footy. you know, our faces just light up when we take to the field and that's because the rest of the world and its
challenges just slip away. And for those 40 minutes, all that idea about disability and challenges, it's just forgotten. We're just mates on a field playing footy where we're accepted and we're having fun.
Ngaire Pakai
Even as you talk about it like, you can just see how enriching it's been in your life. But how have you seen the impacts of getting into the sport after the brain injury, like helped you in your life
Dr Alexander Smith
Many times over? It's I guess in two main ways it's really impacted on my life. the first one I guess is it's given me an opportunity to be physically active outside of clinical settings and rehab. So much of the last few years have been spent on physical activity that's been set by healthcare
providers to get me better. you know, the focus has been on progressing from the hospital bed to the walker, from the walker to walking unaided. But with physical disability, footy, it's no longer associated with trauma, it's no longer associated with rehab and someone else dictating what I'm doing.
instead it's about having fun and getting to enjoy the ability to move again and be physical again. I think the second way that it's helped is it's reduced feelings of social and physical isolation when you have a disability that you can be denied opportunities or you can be overlooked or
underestimated by able bodied sporting organisations. There can be a belief that people with disability are less than and that they can't contribute to a team sport. And I experienced this in my own community. I wanted to play touch footy once clubs heard disability, the email stopped and the
shutters went up. And I wanted to build social connections in my local community by playing sport, but no one was actually willing to give me the chance. And you start to wonder, well, where do I fit in? And what I found with disability footy is I do fit in and I'm accepted and I can contribute both
on and off the field. It's a six hour round trip for me to play one game of footy, but it's absolutely worth it. So for me, I guess the sport has been life changing and life enriching.
Ngaire Pakai
You said six hours. Where are you coming from? Where are you going to play?
Dr. Alexander Smith
From the south coast to Western Sydney.
Ngaire Pakai
At the end of last year, you represented Australia in the test match against New Zealand in Auckland as part of the Pacific Championships. How was that?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Oh, it was amazing. It was just brilliant. that was where I got to make my debut for Australia. you know, since a kid, I've watched teams, you know, represent us on the global stage. And I've always longed to be able to wear the green and gold, but I never thought it would happen. and it was the
first test match between our two countries that was played on New Zealand soil. So it's, an important test to be involved in. But I just want to tell you about two things about game day. When we came out of the tunnel, we were met and cheered on by the Australian men's rugby league wheelchair squad.
And it was so great to see them there and, I really appreciated their support. And the second really, really, special moment was the Haka It just gives me goosebumps because, it was such a special and deeply personal moment that is shared between the two teams. You are so close to the passion as
that New Zealand squad square up and speak directly to you. It's powerful and intimidating, but it's also inspiring because you know you're in for a battle. don't, tell anyone, but I actually think I feared the Haka more than the test match. but once the whistle went, you know, I was in game mode
and it was so much fun. and to be named joint man of the match was also really special. And, after the game, all I wanted to do was just do it all over again.
Ngaire Pakai
When you go on tour, how does your disability impact going around to these places internationally or even that six hour travel up to Sydney?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Yeah, I think able bodied people might not be aware of the work and the preparation that goes on behind the scenes to help athletes with Disability compete. As someone with medical and physical disabilities, I need to spend months preparing strategies and management plans with my social and
healthcare teams. And the biggest challenge I have is, is actually with my autism. Tours require you to live with and around other people for long periods and I live on my own in a tiny little village. my routine is very predictable and it's controlled because I have a lot of hypersensitivities to
sound, light, smell and touch. So I wear the same things every day, I eat the same things, I buy the same food. I have a highly controlled routine timetable and any shift in that creates a lot of stress and anxiety. So tours then ah, are incredibly stressful. so a lot of planning takes place. I do a
lot of work with my psychologist to help reduce and manage the upheaval. I also tend not to travel with the team, but I arrive early to the tour destination and have my own room. I bring and purchase my own food. I create playlists, use noise cancelling headphones, to control the sound environment.
I also tend to modify my uniform a bit to make it more comfortable and I have timeouts so we can de escalate things. With the recent tour to New Zealand, I learned really quickly the importance of disclosure because I hadn't told anyone at footy and what I found out was you need someone to know so
they can help you. So I told Steve, our welfare officer that I live with autism and he was incredibly supportive and helpful throughout the tour. And we did a lot of check ins and debriefs and made some modifications. It's hard being vulnerable to another person about your disability. But I think
it's really important to self advocate because that way you can receive some of the supports and accommodations you need so that you can perform.
Ngaire Pakai
And be at your best when it comes to mob. How many, what kind of opportunities are there to get involved in the sports?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Yeah, I love these opportunities. each October we play in the New South Wales Rugby League Harmony Nines competition. And for NAIDOC week we play a match between the combined Indigenous All Stars vs the PDRL All Stars @ Redfern Oval. And this year our match featured in a video and an article by Kris
Flanders at ABC News. So I'd encourage you to check it out. Kris, showcased our indigenous elders, Kullilli man Tom Dorwood and Yorta Yorta and Wiradjuri man Billy Bunyip Bussell. And these guys are highly respected and much loved players and mentors who make a huge contribution to our sport. But
that said, it's not just about opportunities to play as mob that we have in footy, but to have our journeys told to ah Todd, to hand design our indigenous jerseys. And Todd's an amazing artist who's vision impaired and deaf and he's done it all in the sport he's represented at the highest level.
Todd's jersey celebrates that journey of disability footy, of each of the teams and of our communities coming together. The design and the process of creating the indigenous jersey highlights how our cultures and storytelling are ah, valued both on and off the field. And I just love wearing the
jersey and playing alongside Toddy and Billy cause they inspire me to do my best, that we get to come together and celebrate and play a game that we love. Now a dream that I have is that one year we get to play an exhibition match at the Koori Knockout over the October long weekend. I reckon that
would just, that'd be amazing. But also if Timana Tahu and the boys from over the Black Dot ever want to cover one of our games or the NAIDOC Week All Stars game or even just to chat and have a yarn about disability footy, that'd be deadly. Seriously fellas, give us a call.
Ngaire Pakai
Hey, we'll have to hit them up. When it comes to like you've been in the sport for only just a couple years now, what do you hope to see in the future for the sport?
Dr. Alexander Smith
Well, I've already given away two of my little dreams which is about, you know, getting to the Koori Knockout and meeting the boys and having a yarn over the Black Dot. But beyond that, it'd be awesome to have more club teams, particularly up in Queensland. And you know, I mentioned Queensland,
surely we have to play state of origin, maybe do a curtain raiser, to an able bodied women's origin match. Maybe up your way up at Newcastle. Yeah. In terms of the global game, let's go big, let's, let's get the sport and grow the sport in the Pacific and get to the Paralympics. That'd just be
Ngaire Pakai
It's been an amazing chat with you here talking about the sport and for our listeners who want to get more involved either as players or even in support roles. How can they get involved with the PDRL
Dr. Alexander Smith
That's a great question. well, look, the thing about the sport is it's very inclusive so it'd be wonderful to have more people participate. You could try searching online or on the socials. So, New South Wales PDRL or PDRLA New South Wales Physical Disability Rugby League. Or for you, Queensland
Boys, Titans Physical Disability Rugby League. there are contact and schedule details available there. if you want to see some footage, of the sport, check out the videos on YouTube. they showcase, Club, New South Wales Indigenous and Australian matches. You can be an able bod or someone living with
a disability. And there are roles both on and off the field that people might consider being involved in. So maybe as a trainer, assistant coach or manager, joining our wonderful operations and media team. and of course, we've got the World cup next year, so that's being hosted here in Australia.
And it'd be deadly to have some of you mob out there in the crowd cheering us on.
Ngaire Pakai
Thanks for coming on and chatting with us. This has been Dr. Alexander Smith talking about the Physical Disability Rugby League. Thanks for jumping on this session and having this yarn with us.
Dr. Alexander Smith
Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Ngaire Pakai
Speak My Language Disability is an initiative funded by the Commonwealth Department of Social Services. It is led by the Ethnic Communities Council of New South Wales and proudly delivered in partnership with sbs.
