When an Australian and a New Zealander meet for a chat in New York over the next month one topic of conversation is guaranteed.
Yes, the Rugby World Cup.
That was the case on Wednesday when former Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd, as part of his gig as president of the non-profit organisation the Asia Society, hosted New Zealand Prime Minister John Key, who was in Manhattan for the United Nations General Assembly.
And, yes, the rugby talk did end with a silly bet.
There was some serious business discussed, with Mr Key suggesting the mega Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal between Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada and eight other Pacific Rim nations could be completed at meetings in Atlanta this week.
Mr Rudd, in a dig at US trade negotiators, gave some insight into his experience of what goes on behind closed doors.
"I think it was one of life's great entertainments to hear our American friends talk about the wonders of free trade, then you get into a room with them and start talking to them about their own agricultural sector and they turn into the world's greatest protectionists in 24 minutes flat," Rudd said.
There was talk about the Chinese economy, with Mr Key noting "there's clearly some distress within the Chinese market, but the consumer demand side is still strong".
One of Mr Rudd's pet topics is getting India brought into APEC, and New Zealand was open to it.
"There's been a moratorium on countries coming in, but I don't think it should last forever," Mr Key replied.
Then there is New Zealand's debate over changing their flag, with Mr Key hoping a new version will have a silver fern included.
"You brought back knighthoods and you are getting rid of the Union Jack? Explain yourself," Mr Rudd said.
Mr Key told how a Kiwi TV reporter showed the New Zealand flag to 50 people on the streets of New York and asked if they knew what nation it belonged to.
Only two people correctly identified it, but they were tourists from Australia.
"If it is any consolation to you, I remember being foreign minister and arriving in some country in the Middle East, which will remain unnamed, only to be greeted by A, the New Zealand flag and B, God Defend New Zealand," Mr Rudd said.
The Kiwi prime minister laughed.
"Well, I've had many cases where I have been in front of the Australian flag," Mr Key replied.
As for the Rugby World Cup bet, if the Wallabies and All Blacks play in the final they agreed the loser would have to wear the other team's tie.
Mr Key has agreed to wear the Australian tie in New Zealand parliament while Mr Rudd, who seemed to get the better deal, said he'd wear an All-Black tie around the offices of the Asia Society and would tweet a photo.
"The All Blacks will win of course," Mr Key laughed.
